1. Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premiere online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

C-store count

Discussion in 'Commercial/Industrial Appraisals' started by MNRural, Nov 16, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MNRural

    MNRural Member

    0
    Oct 11, 2006
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    Does anyone know where it is possible to find the # of C stores in my county or in my state?

    I'm trying to do a location quotent analysis as detailed in the Bainbridge book.
     
  2. CGgonnabee

    CGgonnabee Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    7
    Apr 10, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Virginia
    Check with your state's petroleum marketers group. You might also check with NACS - National Association of Convenience Stores. The data may or may not be available and it may not be free.
     
  3. Howard Klahr

    Howard Klahr Senior Member

    107
    Oct 4, 2004
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    In addition to the above sources, does your county agencies identify this property catagory in either the tax assessor records or occupancy license data. On a local basis you could also search locations based on major operator web sites.

    Also here is a link to the web site of CONVENIENCE STORE NEWS
     
  4. Stephen J. Vertin MAI

    Stephen J. Vertin MAI Senior Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    7
    Jan 17, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Illinois
    CGgonnabee is giving you good advice. In Illinois it is the Illinois Division of Petroleum Safety. They keep a listing and identify use of these properties. Further it tells the number and size of holding tanks (which is great for adjustments). I do location quotient analysis also. It is actually one of the few helpful tools provided in AI's course on C stores. However, many other things are flawed, especially in the Chicagoland market. My pet peeve is the course teaches properties real estate taxes should not removed as an expense in the income capitalization approach in the valuation of BEV. This is incorrect. I have written instructors several letters on the issue. I was never provided reasonable explanations changing my view on the process but AI moves slowly.............

    Hopefully in its new course on BEV this argument will be settled.
     
  5. tmon43

    tmon43 Senior Member

    0
    Mar 15, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Ohio
    A Phone book would have a list of convenient stores from which to get a rough estimate. I would imagine it may be much more accurate than a list taken from a state of national data base which could be dated.
     
  6. MNRural

    MNRural Member

    0
    Oct 11, 2006
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    The major flaw in the AI approach is their contention that the primary approach should be the income approach. No buyer places all of their weight on that one number given to them by the seller (net income). It doesn't work for the small, independent operator where there are two sets of books, or at least one set of books which is not reality. Secondly, the book even states that the small, independent stores have no excess profit, thus no business value. There are just too many assumed variables. A small change in an income/expense variable can sway the value by a huge amount.

    Sounds like all of the subdivision appraisals done during the building boom. Many weren't worth the cost of the paper and toner due to all of the assumptions built upon assumptions built upon.....
     
  7. Stephen J. Vertin MAI

    Stephen J. Vertin MAI Senior Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    7
    Jan 17, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Illinois
    In Illinois it is a fire safety issues. The list is accurate. However, as you point out other states may not be so fortunate. The problem with phone books is no one uses them anymore and advertising isn't what it was. Google Earth Pro also keeps track of stations. I recommend all commercial appraisers have Google Earth Pro as a tool (not only for this but numerous other important issues).

    Thank you. Your comment was also part of my letters written to AI instructors. Their argument was hyper-market have take over many areas making sales meaningless. The truth is Chicago, while gaining some, has very few of these hyper-facilities in the City. AI's course is not without its flaws. It is as if it was written for a specific market and extrapolated to apply to the entire country. I factually know both sales and income can produce creditable results and a very reasonable sales comparison approach can be developed (at least in my local market). Saying other wise is simply incorrect.

    Finally, values of most C-stores have crashed. Many facilities worth a million plus three or four years ago are worth $300,000 to $400,000 now. One thing I do believe AI correct is the format is under attack and may not be around in (at least) some markets in coming years.
     
  8. PL1957

    PL1957 Senior Member

    24
    Jul 19, 2004
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Illinois
    IMO, unless the H&BU of the property is no longer a c-store, the income approach will be given the greatest weight by a potential purchaser. Whether he believes the sellers "books" or develops his own estimates, the decision will be driven by the revenues the property can generate. Even if the buyer is relying on a gross profit multiplier, or, as some put it, "purchasing a job for himself", it's still based on income.

    As an aside, I think the cases of multiple "books" are very few and far between, at least on the revenue side. The IRS and state's Departments of Revenue have gotten incredibly creative in tracking cash type businesses. I think most operators are aware that the risk/reward for skimming revenues just isn't there. On the other hand, nobody believes the expenses in a closely held business anyway.
     
  9. Stephen J. Vertin MAI

    Stephen J. Vertin MAI Senior Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    7
    Jan 17, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Illinois
    I do not think anyone is arguing income is not important. I think the comments were in the context of AI's course. Which basically shows there are three areas of value in most c-stores. The real estate, the FF&E and going concern. FF&E is absorbed in the purchase of RE in most cases with little value. The going concern is the number purchasers are concerned with as you pointed. However, AI's course basically indicates real estate can also be measured by backing into value using income and cost. It argues sales are irrelevant in the real estate valuation portion. While it may be true in some markets it is not applicable to all.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page