1. Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premiere online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Fannie Form, Comments from Danny Wiley

Discussion in 'Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, USPAP' started by larryhaskell, Jul 19, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. larryhaskell

    larryhaskell Senior Member

    0
    Apr 23, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Nevada
    We have been discussing a couple of issues in our office related to the Fannie Mae form so I decided to contact Danny Wiley and he was kind enough to reply to our questions and also gave his permission for me to post his answers on the Forum.

    First Question:

    Can the retired Fannie Mae forms be be used for appraisals that are not for lending purposes? I've heard that many appraisers use them for estates, divorces, etc. I've been told that it is an infringement of copyright laws for us to use retired Fannie Mae forms for any purpose.

    Danny's Response:

    While working on the project team for the AI form I learned that one cannot copyright a form. It is common practice to use the "old" Fannie Mae forms for non-lending purposes. Of course, one needs to supplement them to address items like intended use, etc. They fall pretty short of complying with STANDARD 2.

    Second Question:

    Can the current Fannie Mae forms be used for PMI removal and REO/foreclosure related appraisals. Apparently someone named Don Kelly at the Appraisal Institute said the current forms can be used for these purposes because the reports are used by lenders.

    Danny's Response:

    I discussed the REO/PMI thing with Joe Minnich before he got transferred over to the condo department. His take was that the new forms were fine for those uses because they are "in connection with a loan".

    The only part of Danny's response that surprised me was that one cannot copyright a form. Otherwise, Danny's responses make sense to me.
     
  2. Kevin Keck

    Kevin Keck Junior Member

    0
    Jun 2, 2006
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Ohio
    :new_smile-l: Thanks for sharing:new_smile-l:
     
  3. larryhaskell

    larryhaskell Senior Member

    0
    Apr 23, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Nevada
    More from Danny

    In my thank you email to Danny, I mentioned that I was surprised that a form could not be copyrighted and if he had a source he could quote about the copyright issue.

    Danny's Response:

    Sorry, that was two to three years ago, and was not really a critical issue for that project.

    I don't think it is a key point to your question anyway. Even if the Fannie Mae forms are copyrighted, how would using the form violate that copyright? The appraiser is not changing the form, just filling it in.
     
  4. bschmidt

    bschmidt Sophomore Member

    0
    Jun 4, 2007
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    That's good information..tyvm :)
     
  5. George W Dodd

    George W Dodd Senior Member

    0
    Jul 9, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Virginia
    Who and why should anyone care what Danny Wiley has to say about the use of Fannie forms?
     
  6. Workbox

    Workbox Elite Member

    2
    Mar 2, 2005
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Colorado
    He has experience and knowledge that can be useful for appraising. Some may not care, but others might use this info for assignment decisions.
     
  7. leelansford

    leelansford Elite Member

    45
    Mar 29, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Illinois
    You're free to ignore what Danny has offered, yes?
     
  8. Don Clark

    Don Clark Elite Member

    15
    Jan 17, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Virginia
    For the record

    I was trained by Joe Minnich of Fannie Mae in May 2005 in a "Train The Trainer" session in New Orleans. I have been trying to tell everyone on this forum exactly what danny Wiley confirmed. However, I have often been met with disdain, disbelief, and snotty remarks that PMI is not mortgage related, or "How can a Foreclosure be Mortgage Related".? Many on this forum would rather believe what they think than words directly from Fannie Mae. I doubt that even Danny Wiley will convince some on this forum. I also know there are thousands of appraisers out there that are using the new Fannie Mae forms for unintended, non mortgage related purposes. I have called a few and was met with a "so what" attitude. i quit trying to educate such folks. Let them find out the hard way when they find that their appraisals are considered misleading because they used a form that clearly states it is for a mortgage related transaction, and was used for a different purpose. Some heads are harder than others.
     
  9. Couch Potato

    Couch Potato Elite Member

    0
    Mar 15, 2004
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    North Carolina
    The bit about not being able to copyright a form is simply not accurate; however, FNMA has granted permission to use their forms so copyright is not a problem. If one were to use a retired FNMA form, there is the issue of having the form label at the bottom. Having the "FNMA 1004" at the bottom could be misleading to an unsophisticated user as is often the case in non-lending work. Given that every major forms software vendor has nice, new forms for non-lending work, I can't imagine a good reason to use the old 1004.

    Don, my response to your quoted question is "How could a foreclosure not be mortgage related?" Without a mortgage there is no default. Without a mortgage to be insured there is no PMI.

    Those using the new FNMA forms for work not related to a mortgage are lazy and stupid, IMHO.
     
  10. Mike Garrett RAA

    Mike Garrett RAA Elite Member

    25
    Jan 14, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Colorado
    Chair of the ASB...yeah, what does he know? LOL!!!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page