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FHA & the Stove issue

Discussion in 'FHA/HUD and VA' started by Andrew Urbanek, Jun 18, 2010.

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  1. Andrew Urbanek

    Andrew Urbanek Sophomore Member

    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    I see now that there are statements being made that a stove is not required for FHA funding, but I have one question.

    How exactly is one supposed to certify and verify that all of the mechanical, electrical, plumbing and water systems are functional for a safe and sanitary environment if the proper outlets, appliances and instruments are not tested?
     
  2. Mr Rex

    Mr Rex Elite Member

    114
    Jan 12, 2004
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    North Carolina
    Stick you finger in the socket.
     
  3. CANative

    CANative Elite Member

    122
    Jun 18, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    How are you going to test a stove for functionality if there is no stove?

    There are MPR (4910.1) and there are valuation protocols (Appendix D to 4150.2). The protocols tell you how to inspect, test and value under the MPRs.

     
  4. Lost Cause

    Lost Cause Senior Member

    15
    Sep 17, 2004
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    New York
    I guess X is right; it's right there in the protocol Greg quoted:
     
  5. CANative

    CANative Elite Member

    122
    Jun 18, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
  6. Andrew Urbanek

    Andrew Urbanek Sophomore Member

    0
    Apr 30, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    My question comes down to safety and liability. I am hearing a lot of arguments that say a stove is not needed, however, those arguments seem to center around the personal property / fixture argument of the stove and not the safety & electrical issue that a working range helps test.

    I am talking about the electrical here, the stove runs on a 220V outlet which is different than everything else. It does not matter how many light switches you turn on or how many electrical outlets you stick your tongue in, because those fall under different standards and fire codes with the 220v versus the 175s.

    If you test a property without properly testing the 220v then you open yourself up to unlimited liability. What if the new buyer of the house goes to install a stove after closing and it does not work and an electrician determines that the whole 220v outlet was a disaster and it needs $5,000 in repairs? Or, what if the new buyer installs a stove and it burns down the house and the fire investigator determines that the 220v was faulty? What will the appraiser that rubber stamped the "missing stove," situation say if God forbid one of those two scenarios happen?
     
  7. CANative

    CANative Elite Member

    122
    Jun 18, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    Twice the volts = half the amps.

    No big deal.
     
  8. rzyzzy

    rzyzzy New Member

    0
    May 21, 2009
    Professional Status:
    Real Estate Agent or Broker
    State:
    Arizona
    There's lots of others to sue BEFORE they get to the appraiser in that situation. The government says you don't have to test, plain as day... don't test!

    Don't forget that EVERYTHING on a stove isn't 220v - just turning on one burner could be only drawing on one "leg" of the 220 - are you turning the oven and all of the burners on at the same time?

    What if you get sued because the oven works, but won't hit 400 degrees? You "tested" it right?

    What if your harbor-freight electrical tester has a dead-short, and it causes the main panel to blow up when you stick the leads into the outlet, and sends shrapnel into a school-bus filled with children?

    Call me oversensitive, but an FHA appraiser claimed a broken garage-door spring was a "safety hazard" and set in motion a chain of events that delayed closing on my home for an extra month.

    Somehow, "protecting" me from that $79 repair was a "good" thing, but no one thought about the extra $1400 in RENT I had to pay.

    Assuming all of your buyers are stupid and broke is kind of asinine.

    FWIW, I didn't begin to nit-pick my appraisal until after that happened... Then I found lots of goodies...
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2010
  9. CANative

    CANative Elite Member

    122
    Jun 18, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    I'd have made a repair condition for a broken garage door spring too.
     
  10. rzyzzy

    rzyzzy New Member

    0
    May 21, 2009
    Professional Status:
    Real Estate Agent or Broker
    State:
    Arizona
    This is silly! - yes, it is possible if spring #2 breaks, while the door is opening, you might possibly be injured...

    BUT

    lots of doors have only ONE spring, and you never know when that spring is going to break, and the chance of injury is the same.

    Noting the broken spring would have been fine - In fact, In my case it had already been repaired after the appraiser went through, but before I got the appraisal back.

    The whole "send us a copy of the receipt, we'll send the appraiser back out, we lost your fax, we lost your fax, we lost your fax, you didn't need to come in with a copy, you could have FAXED it..." thing took a month...

    Having been a homeowner who's had a couple of springs break, I know they usually break at 3am when everyone is asleep, and the only injury is the AHA! moment when the door won't open a few hours later.

    "CYA" appraising won't work - you'll still get sued for that one thing you never thought of/ that likely isn't even logical anyway. Lawyer-logic is different and often non-existent.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2010
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