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No Bedrooms, FHA

Discussion in 'FHA/HUD and VA' started by CJ1234, Feb 11, 2010.

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  1. CJ1234

    CJ1234 Junior Member

    0
    Jan 24, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    • Subject is a 3 level split, built 1970
    • No bedrooms above grade
    • Basement has two bedrooms
    • Basement bedroom window sills exceed FHA basement bedroom classification requirement for "Below grade valuation" ("Windowsill may not be greater than 44") (3-3 4150.2) ATTACHED
      • Then there is a disclaimer to use reasonable judgement.
    • Sale. FHA.
    • Basement bedroom windows are daylight, large and meet the other two requirements defined by FHA
    Secondary info:Subject market time is typical for market
    • Last sale in 2003 market time was typical for market
    • I've determined adjustment for the basement bedrooms based on two measurements
      • Looked at the sale in 2003 to determine the market reaction at that time
      • Looked at the very few similar sales with only below grade bedrooms, outside the subject's market (with appropriate adjustments).
      • Both of these indicate a similar adjustment
    Help me work this out. Do I state this as a 0-Bedroom Above grade property with 2-bedrooms below grade, and clearly note that the basement bedroom window sills do not meet the FHA critera spelled out in 4150.2 section 3-3. Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

    Or am I missing something here? Off base?

    I will be out of the office for the next 2 hours, but appreaciate all comments/feedback.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  2. BRCJR

    BRCJR Senior Member

    22
    Sep 20, 2005
    Professional Status:
    Licensed Appraiser
    State:
    Virginia

    Tell it like it is, as it appears, you are on top of the situation.
     
  3. CJ1234

    CJ1234 Junior Member

    0
    Jan 24, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    BRCJR--Thank you.
     
  4. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Elite Member

    247
    Sep 28, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    New York
    Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

    If so (as demonstrated by comparables with similar Layout, Utility, Appeal and Buyer Acceptance), there is no C2C for Functional Utility.:icon_idea: (Fannie/Freddie)


    However:

    FHA / Gross Living Area
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Room design and count should reflect local custom. A dining area built as an L-shape off the kitchen may or may not be considered a room depending on the size. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]To determine whether one or two rooms should be counted, hypothetically insert a wall to separate the two areas that have been built as one: if the residents can use the resulting two rooms with the same or more utility without increased inconvenience, count the room as two. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If the hypothetical wall would result in a lack of utility and increased inconvenience, count the room as [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]4150.2 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Book Antiqua,Book Antiqua][FONT=Book Antiqua,Book Antiqua]1/06 D- 27 [/FONT][/FONT]​

    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]one. The room count typically includes a living room (LR), dining room (DR), kitchen (KT), den (DN), recreation room (REC) and one or more bedrooms (BR). Typically, the foyer, bath and laundry room are not counted as rooms. A room is a livable area with a specific use. [/FONT][/FONT]


    Room Count and Gross Living Area Field Protocol



    Finished area above grade contains
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]To complete this section, enter the total [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]number [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]of above grade rooms, the total number of bedrooms above grade, and the total number of bathrooms above grade. Do not include foyers, basement finished rooms or unfinished attic space. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• Calculate square footage by using exterior dimensions. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]• Enter the total square footage of the gross living area above grade. [/FONT]


    * you are the Appraiser in YOUR market. [/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  5. CJ1234

    CJ1234 Junior Member

    0
    Jan 24, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    Thank you Mike Kennedy. That's what I was thinking, so I'm glad there is a second opinion. Appreciate the feedback.
     
  6. Webbed Feet

    Webbed Feet Elite Member

    44
    Feb 11, 2005
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    I'd like to read three to seven paragraphs as to how you arrived at a cost to cure with all your support for it... Right after you explain what is being cured.

    :)

    P.S. or I agree with Brother Kennedy... ;)
     
  7. Tim Hicks (Texas)

    Tim Hicks (Texas) Elite Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    70
    Jan 15, 2002
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Texas
    What could the cost possibly be to slide four bumper jacks under that thing and jack it all above grade? Or a back hoe to dig the entire thing out might be cheaper? Balloons?
     
  8. Pittsburgh Pete

    Pittsburgh Pete Elite Member

    88
    May 6, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified General Appraiser
    State:
    Pennsylvania
    Those were my thoughts as well--or possibly the reduction in value arising from only marketing to dyslexics--when they're downstairs they think they're upstairs--makes no difference to them!!!
     
  9. CJ1234

    CJ1234 Junior Member

    0
    Jan 24, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota

    This is what I've been struggling over. :Eyecrazy: "Right after you explain what is being cured" ---Thanks. I think I was just floundering there for a moment.

    I have about 10 sales in the area (not in the actual city, but in competing markets) over the last two years which show market times in line with their specific markets. I also have the data from the subject's last sale, where the market time was well within the standard for the market.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  10. CJ1234

    CJ1234 Junior Member

    0
    Jan 24, 2008
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Minnesota
    LOL.

    We've had a few oddball properties lately...All sales. In this market, why are people buying the oddballs?!?!? :shrug:
     
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