1. Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premiere online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Question about mortage loans.

Discussion in 'General Appraisal Discussion' started by Jim Hill, Oct 17, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jim Hill

    Jim Hill Member

    0
    Oct 13, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    My question is when home mortgages loans were bundled together and sold to wall street firms which in turn sold them as investments to people all over the world did the deeds from all these mortages follow the investments or what happens to them.

    When I look at the problems major lenders are having proving that they have the right to foreclose on homeowners it make me wonder if the people who purchased these investments have anything to really fall back when their their investments went bad.

    Were the deeds included with these investments as security or what happened to them?

    Thanks Jim Hill
     
  2. Randolph Kinney

    Randolph Kinney Elite Member
    Gold Supporting Member

    100
    Apr 7, 2005
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    There are two components to a mortgage; the promissory note and the deed of trust. It was the deed of trust that was transferred using MERS. The promissory note is where the chain of title is created. It requires the actual notarized signatures of buyer and seller to be on the note, every time the property is transferred to a new owner of the deed of trust. MERS was never set up to handle the promissory note. The deed of trust never was funded with the promissory note because the mortgage was going to be sliced and diced to investors.

    With out the promissory note and a clear chain of title, a mortgage servicer cannot prove they have standing to represent to a court to execute the foreclosure according to the deed of trust.
     
  3. Lloyd Bonafide

    Lloyd Bonafide Senior Member

    0
    Jan 15, 2006
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    California
    The actual deeds from many mortages definitely did not follow the investments, because those MBA geniuses on Wall Street decided to slice the individual mortgages into many pieces when they were securitized and resold. Pieces of one mortgage are often split into various securities.

    It sounds like in many cases the original mortgage documents cannot now be found, (maybe intentionally lost to cover their tracks on all those wonderful loans done in the past 6-7 years?)
     
  4. Jim Hill

    Jim Hill Member

    0
    Oct 13, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    Lloyd Bonafide

    Your comment below:

    It sounds like in many cases the original mortgage documents cannot now be found, (maybe intentionally lost to cover their tracks on all those wonderful loans done in the past 6-7 years?)

    I think you might be right but my next question is why would anyone purchase these types of investments for billions of dollars without some type of security being part of the deal just in case it went bad.

    How would they ever recover any of their investment other then suing the wall street firms that sold it to them in the first place?

    These wall street firms had to be wondering many of these same questions when they sold this junk to investors.

    What did they do with all the paper work or did they also use the same company that the banks used?

    Maybe I am wrong but the more I think about this whole mess I think we just might be at the tip of the ice berg.

    Many investors right now won't touch a bank stock because of just what might be coming next and all the law sues for years to come.

    BOA will be lucky if they survive this whole mess without their stock tanking below $5.00 dollars a share like Citi did.

    Short sellers must be licking their chops right now looking at BOA


    Jim Hill
     
  5. prasercat

    prasercat Senior Member

    0
    Oct 24, 2007
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Colorado

    It was simply a scheme that legalized money laundering and responsbility laundering by a new name and process.

    The top management knew what they were doing and why is was so great for them, the people below are just worker bees and most had no idea of the big picture.

    I heard an interview just recently with a couple Wall Street guys while they were at a bar. According to their reasoning, we had no choice to bail them out - they were against the current admin, since they used money to bail them out. They we going on about how intelligent they are and more intellegent than most and that was why they kept their jobs, not because they were bailed out by the public (much of which has been repaid so far, by the way). The interviewer was trying to understand their logic, so they went on to explain. Evidently, both the fact that Wall Street had leverage over the rest of the government and economy and had to be bailed out, means they are smarter than the rest of us. Basically, each time they rip someone off, they believe it proves their IQ is higher, because they got the upper hand - I can easily see this as being representative of the Wall Street culture. It's like organized crime, with less morals and lower IQ.

    It is the tip of the ice-berg, we have no idea. Bank lobbyists spent well over 1 million dollars a day to influence congress this summer. They want to tie a few strings to your back and make you serve them, just like some politicians.
     
  6. Renee Borne

    Renee Borne Junior Member

    0
    Jan 5, 2005
    Professional Status:
    Licensed Appraiser
    State:
    Arizona
    current administration did not bail them out, TARP was Bush and Paulson. MSNBC has a ok documentary on GS and the bailout. It most be noted that Obama is also surrounded by GS former employees. I say national strike!!!!!!!
     
  7. prasercat

    prasercat Senior Member

    0
    Oct 24, 2007
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Colorado
    The way I see it is that you are totally correct; however, the Obama admin insisted they actually pay back the money and wanted to set up an escrow account funded by banks to prevent public bailouts in the future. I don't believe Bush would have been so stringent about getting paid back, because that would be argued as hurting the banks and jobs. The current admin took the baton from Bush and completed the process - Bush was propelled by economists to start the process and the fed and the current admin has been guided by economists.

    However, the public has a very short memory and Wall Street is only working for their interests at the moment. They certainly don't feel good about being regulated, I mean actually regulated. It means less profits from ripping off the public - bad for business.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  8. Jim Hill

    Jim Hill Member

    0
    Oct 13, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Florida
    Prasercat

    Your comment below:

    They certainly don't feel good about being regulated, I mean actually regulated. It means less profits from ripping off the public - bad for business.

    How right you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you remember who made the comment that wall street can regulate itself and does not need more regulation?

    George W. Bush

    Jim Hill
     
  9. TJSum

    TJSum Elite Member

    4
    Nov 12, 2007
    Professional Status:
    Certified Residential Appraiser
    State:
    Maryland
    The best regulation is to let those with p*ss poor management fail and go out of biz. The bailouts prevented the market from correcting itself, what a shock that they still are being mis-managed...
     
  10. Walter Kirk

    Walter Kirk Senior Member

    15
    Jun 24, 2003
    Professional Status:
    Licensed Appraiser
    State:
    New Jersey
    Mortgage requirements change from state to state. In some states a Deed of trust makes forclosure easy in others a complicated court procedure is required before a sheriffs deed can be issued. Mortgages are not stock certificates that can be bought and sold in an instant, each transaction must follow a strict procedure.

    It seems that the big banks forgot about that just as they forgot about local sales and reporting requirements. Three cheers for the MBA's and the mess that they have made of the real estate market.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page