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  #1  
Old 01-08-2007, 03:00 PM
Brad Breeding Brad Breeding is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
State: Texas
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Default Server Backup

I have recently purchased a new server to handle our appraisal software and files. One of the purposes for the purchase is for tape backup, which I did not have on our old server. We plan on using BACKUPEXEC by Symantec/Veritas, as this is the most widely used and user friendly software that I am familiar. BACKUPEXEC software runs Microsoft SQL 2005. Apparently, ALAMODE uses SQL Desktop and it will not read/recognize MS SQL 2005. I was told that the ONLY way to backup WINTOTAL files is to use their VAULT system, or to use the incredibly cumbersome and inefficient MS BACKUP. I refuse to use the vault service as it is not cost effective. MS BACKup is quiet frankly not a feasible option. Needless to say, I am somewhat disappointed that I cannot backup our files the way that I think that I should. Current size of our WINTOTAL files comes to around 58 Gigs. Anyone have any suggestions for our physical backup? Any help is greatly appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2007, 03:25 PM
MS Rebel's Avatar
MS Rebel MS Rebel is offline
 
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Default

Welcome Brad!

Sorry, no suggestions, but I'm sure a lot of these wonderful geeks will answer soon. (I love geeks!)

That is the reason I did not upgrade to Aurora. With Athena - you can back up the entire program. Have several friends who pay for the vault - and now they're wondering how they got into such deep doo doo. They're emptying old files to replace with new files or the cost is tremendous. Glad I did not do that.

You might do a forum search and there are plenty of other options.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2007, 04:43 PM
Michael Chu Michael Chu is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Breeding
I was told that the ONLY way to backup WINTOTAL files is to use their VAULT system!
What a scam! The vault would have more than indigestion with 58 Gigs of data.
Maybe you should take that guy's word for it and hold them accountable, just for fun.

What is on the server that exists you cannot backup with proper OS and s/w? nada.
  #4  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:10 AM
Greg davenport Greg davenport is offline
 
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Location: Central Arkansas
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Default 58 Gig on tapes, Why?

What kind of tapes, and drive are you going to be using? One thing about tapes, and tape libraries is the need to swap out and replace tapes at some point. Tape is a good median, but as you grow (and let’s hope you do) the need to replace the tapes (size) and the drive (speed) will become an issue. I just lost this fight.

I had a DLT tape system that was to slow, and tape size was too small. The only upgrade path I had was to start over with a new drive, and new tapes. The price was just not within my budget.

For now I am backing up my SBS 2003 server to a workstation in the office. I am looking for a wireless NAS that I like. (the “office” is behind my house)

For now I am using the built in backup software from Microsoft. It is not as nice as the one from VERITAS, but it is free, and gets the job done.

To back up 38 gigs this way takes only 1 hour and 14 minutes a night (grows about a minute a night). I do a full back up every night. I also do a full backup Friday night to an external drive that goes in the safe deposit box at the bank.

Backup software does not care what is running; it is just taking a picture of what is on the drive at a point in time.

As far as the SQL issue your software should have an option to do a shadow copy, or a copy open files option, and this should take care of everything.
  #5  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:26 AM
Michael Chu Michael Chu is offline
 
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Default Storage Mgt

Mr. Davenport's post from the trenches is both realistic and helpful.
What I would add is that a better way to solve your problem is to plan the storage/backup system (yes, with 58 Gigs you need to put some thought into it, unlike what the alamode phone monkey told you) .

I am assuming that you will not have to provide real time access to all of the 58 Gigs of reports, so archive a good chunk into a separate area.
Use the new Volume Shadow Service feature that comes free with Win2003 server OS and let it backup all the 'active' files including the Wintotal program files and the SQL db- on a twice-daily or hourly basis according to your plan and available resources.

The VSS is the best that W2k3 server has to offer in terms of backup/restore of files that are used with high activity.

.
  #6  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:34 AM
Brad Breeding Brad Breeding is offline
 
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The server is a Dell PowerEdge, with 2.8 GHz dual core pentium, 2 GB DDR2, with two mirrored 250 GB hard drives. The tape backup is a PowerVault 100T, DAT72, 36/72GB internal drive, so storage of compressed files should not be a problem on a single tape. The issue with MS backup is performing a backup requires someone to be there to run the backup. I currently have 13 appraisers who work at all hours of the day, and it is not feasible to have to shut down the 20 workstations we have to perform a backup during our "business hours". I don't really feel like coming up to the office every night at 12 AM to run tape. Plus the restore function, from what I have been told, blows. Also, it comes down to spending $800 on the software for the server and another nice chunk of change for a brick of tapes
  #7  
Old 01-09-2007, 10:32 AM
Greg davenport Greg davenport is offline
 
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Default

O.k. Brad, I am not trying to pick on you, so don’t take my post that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Breeding
The server is a Dell PowerEdge, with 2.8 GHz dual core pentium, 2 GB DDR2, with two mirrored 250 GB hard drives. The tape backup is a PowerVault 100T, DAT72, 36/72GB internal drive, so storage of compressed files should not be a problem on a single tape.
That is a nice system, mine is an AMD 3200 2 GB ram with 4 320 gigs drives in a Raid 5. I will not be replacing it anytime soon. (yea I like to brag about my raid!)

Quote:
The issue with MS backup is performing a backup requires someone to be there to run the backup. I currently have 13 appraisers who work at all hours of the day, and it is not feasible to have to shut down the 20 workstations we have to perform a backup during our "business hours". I don't really feel like coming up to the office every night at 12 AM to run tape. Plus the restore function, from what I have been told, blows. Also, it comes down to spending $800 on the software for the server and another nice chunk of change for a brick of tapes
Brad, you can schedule the backup to run automatically. Mine runs at 3:00 a.m. every night. Anything in windows can be scheduled to run when you need it.
As for the restore function, I look at it like life insurance; I have it, but hope to never use it

If you are getting the software for only 800.00, you are getting a deal, it list for $929.00

Quote:
I currently have 13 appraisers who work at all hours of the day, and it is not feasible to have to shut down the 20 workstations we have to perform a backup during our "business hours".
With that type of office, I suggest you look long and hard at the about of growth you are going to have. I tried VERITAS and it had a hard time compressing my Images database. With the volume of photos you have on a regular basis, I believe that alone will eat up your space faster than you believe.
Remember that with a 36/72 gig tape, you will only be able to have about 70gig of compressed data on a drive. What are you planning to do when you hit the 70+gig stage?
Do you have a tape library, or a single tape drive? If only a single tape drive, who gets to baby-sit it to swap out the tapes?

I went for 8 gigs to 38 gigs in less than 2 years with just 2 of us. But I also went all digital with work files. Our average Wintotal ZAP file is 8 Megs uncompressed. The largest I could find was 25 Megs (and that does not count the BZ files.

Just some food for thought.
  #8  
Old 01-09-2007, 11:46 AM
Brad Breeding Brad Breeding is offline
 
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Default

This newly purchased server is being used only to store Wntotal and other intergrated appraisal software (Apex, etc.) Our other server is used for everything else (business applications, photo files, etc.). It would not be a problem to run a once-a-week backup of the entire Wintotal database on a Saturday or Sunday if and when we will need to store data on more than one tape. I belive the issue is with using MS Backup, and I need to check with my tech guru, that you cannot write script that allows you to backup only newly created/modified data. What I basically want is the ability to backup every day the 30-45 files that are created and or modified, similar to the VAULT, without the cost or security issues, then run a full system backup once a week. I am mostly uneducated about this stuff.

As far as the software price, I order almost all of our stuff from CDW. They have good prices, and they are about the only company that I have dealt with that gives price breaks and will even allow you to hagel a bit. Things like the tapes, MS operating system licensing, etc.
  #9  
Old 01-09-2007, 12:16 PM
Greg davenport Greg davenport is offline
 
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Location: Central Arkansas
State: Arkansas
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Default Backup options

Brad

I just check what options I have, and they are the following:
Normal
Copy
Daily
Incremental
Differential

I belive that what you are wanting to do will fall under the daily or incremental options.

FYI, do you have a privacy agreement with them? Somthing to cover you from GLB problems, Since they have full access to the confidential data on your server?
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