Real Estate Appraisal Forum

appraisersforum.com logo
The Premiere Online Community for Real Estate Appraisers!
 Fastest Way to Find a Real Estate Appraiser Enter Zip Code:
 
 
Go Back   Appraisers Forum > Real Estate Appraisal Forums > FHA/HUD and VA
Register Help Our Rules Calendar Archives Mark Forums Read


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 11-20-2008, 11:52 PM
David S. Roberson's Avatar
David S. Roberson David S. Roberson is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hoplandshire, the land of the Fee of Legend
State: Tennessee
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 2,682
Default

What about this one I looked at today? Surely you can't say this doesn't need a rail?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 08112035.JPG (110.2 KB, 98 views)
__________________
No comp checks. I'm a fee appraiser, not a free appraiser.
Sponsored Links

  #12  
Old 11-21-2008, 03:54 AM
Michael Tipton's Avatar
Michael Tipton Michael Tipton is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SW Florida
State: Florida
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 2,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David S. Roberson View Post
What about this one I looked at today? Surely you can't say this doesn't need a rail?
Does it comply with local building codes without handrails? Pictures and comments would be included in a report should I encounter the condition you observed in the photograph.
  #13  
Old 11-21-2008, 07:35 AM
Greg Bell's Avatar
Greg Bell Greg Bell is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
State: Louisiana
Professional Status: Gvmt Agency, FNMA, HUD, VA etc.
Posts: 3,023
Default

David.....Safety issue , handrail is required...
  #14  
Old 11-21-2008, 07:56 AM
Mr Rex's Avatar
Mr Rex Mr Rex is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: X Marks the spot
State: North Carolina
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 25,681
Default


Frequently Asked Questions
Valuation Protocol

These FAQs are issued to clarify or illustrate FHA’s appraisal reporting requirements and applicability on
valuation issues.
Content updated January 24, 2007

3. It was stated that handrails and trip hazards are cosmetic. I don't understand! Wouldn’t these items be health and safety issues?
The appraiser must always be mindful of health and safety issues and report what is readily observable. The missing handrails or trip hazards are property conditions that no longer require
automatic repair for existing properties but should be reported by the appraiser. In these instances, lender discretion and prudent underwriting will determine whether or not a repair is advisable. For example, a stairwell or staircase comprised of eight (8) or nine (9) risers without a handrail would probably pose a safety risk.

__________________
You talking to me?
  #15  
Old 11-21-2008, 08:12 AM
Don Clark's Avatar
Don Clark Don Clark is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
State: Virginia
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 8,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by incognito View Post
Regardless what your conscious may want you to do, this is a SCOPE issue. You accepted an FHA assignment. FHA says DO NOT call for repair if there are missing handrails. If you don't like that, don't accept the assignment...
Mention it, thoroughly. Explain how horribly dangerous it is. But DON'T call for mandatory repair.
I disagree. It is a SAFETY issue. I would rather have a DEU scream at me than someone break their neck and sue me. Even FHA wants us to use common sense.
__________________
AQB Certified USPAP Instructor,Member VaCAP,NCPAC, Expert Witness, Consultant/Peer Assistance
  #16  
Old 11-21-2008, 08:13 AM
Don Clark's Avatar
Don Clark Don Clark is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
State: Virginia
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 8,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David S. Roberson View Post
What about this one I looked at today? Surely you can't say this doesn't need a rail?
I would require handrails.....and a safety net
__________________
AQB Certified USPAP Instructor,Member VaCAP,NCPAC, Expert Witness, Consultant/Peer Assistance
  #17  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:20 AM
angdw angdw is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
State: North Carolina
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 19
Default

I agree...FHA no longer requires handrails and should not be listed a required repair; however, I would include a comment, regarding the missing handrails as a potential safety hazard in the condition section of the report.
  #18  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:36 AM
incognito's Avatar
incognito incognito is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the Beach
State: Florida
Professional Status: Certified General Appraiser
Posts: 3,821
Default

I stand by my prior advice.
Michael, Don, Mr. Rex, Craig, and others, I recognize you are doing what you think is correct (and I respect that), but I feel more comfortable doing what FHA tells me is correct:

Regarding code, FHA states in 4150.2:
HUD has neither the authority nor responsibility for enforcing code. This rests with the local municipalities.

Code has nothing to do with minimum FHA requirements. If it did, no house over 1-2 years old would qualify, because code changes so often!


2005-48 clearly states:
Lenders should use professional judgment and rely upon prudent underwriting practices in determining when a property condition poses a threat to the safety of an occupant and/or jeopardizes the soundness and structural integrity of the property, such that additional inspections and/or repairs are necessary.

HUD goes on the state:
... the LENDER must read the report, ascertain if any conditions require repairs or inspection, and require immediate repair or inspection where the property condition poses a threat to the above criteria (safety of the occupants or the security and soundness of the property).

Want to believe it or not, 4150.2 and ML 2005-48 ARE scope requirements. Accept the job, and perform the scope. FHA wants the APPRAISER to do (and be responsible for) certain things, and wants the LENDER to do (and be responsible for) certain things.

Even IF you do call for a legitimate repair, FHA states :

The appraiser is to note those repairs necessary to make the property comply with FHA’s Minimum Property Requirements (MPR) or Minimum Property Standards (MPS) together with the estimated cost to cure. The lender will determine which repairs for existing properties must be made for the property to be eligible for FHA-insured financing.

I think EVERYONE is agreeing that missing handrails should be reported. I think the degree to which it is a safety hazzard should be reported. I even think a recommendation to the lender that repair be required is indicated, BY THE LENDER. However, FHA no longer sees missing hand rails as a condition that the appraiser calls for mandatory repair. I think it is pretty clear from the quotes I have provided that it is up to the LENDER to make the call!
__________________
A new and witty signature is currently being pondered. Stay tuned!
  #19  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:42 AM
Mr Rex's Avatar
Mr Rex Mr Rex is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: X Marks the spot
State: North Carolina
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 25,681
Default

nito, thats what my post says, and it is from FHA. Appraiser reports it, lender makes the call on whether to call for repair.
__________________
You talking to me?
  #20  
Old 11-21-2008, 10:38 AM
Hamlet's Avatar
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Where the corn grows
State: Ohio
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 5,099
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Clark View Post
I would require handrails.....and a safety net
__________________
Foxtrot, Uniform, Charlie, Kilo Cancer.... Remembering Mr. Bill Waite
Sponsored Links

Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
     Terms of Use  Privacy Policy
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at AppraiserSites.com

Fastest Way to Find a Real Estate Appraiser Enter Zip Code:
Partner Sites:
AppraiserUSA.com - National Appraiser Directory AllDomainsUSA.com - Domain Name Registration
DeadbeatListings.com - Deadbeat ListingsAppraiserSites.com - Web Hosting for the Professional Real Estate Appraiser
Find FHA Appraisers - FHA Appraiser Search Commercial Appraisers - Commercial Appraiser Search
Relocation Appraisal - Find Relocation Appraisers Domain Reseller - Business Opportunity
Home Security Buzz - Home Security Info Radon Testing - Radon Gas Info
My Medicare Forum - Medicare Info Stop Smoking Help - Help Quitting Smoking
CordlessPhoneStore.com - Great Cordless Phones AndroidTabletCity.com - Android Tablet Computers

Follow AppraisersForum.com:          Find us on Facebook            Follow us on Twitter


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.

SiteMap: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93