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  #1  
Old 01-09-2009, 06:53 AM
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Carnivore Carnivore is online now
 
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Default HVCC and USPAP Statement 9 conflict

I found USPAP statment 9 and the HVCC are contradictory in appraiser requirements concerning communications with the client. Currently none of the AMC's will either admit nor deny there actual relationship with Clients.

I also see a problem with confidentiality due to the AMC's refusal to reveal their actual relationship with the clients.

Does anybody see the same problem.

Sorry cut and pasting is impossible from the ON-Line USPAP!
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
Does anybody see the same problem.


It I possible for an AMC to be a “client.” It is possible for an AMC to be the representative for a “client.”

If the AMC is a representative for the client I see the issues some are bringing up, but off the top of my head I don’t see how the situation is different from traditional lending work. In many cases we get appraisal requests, additional instructions, etc. from people who are not officers of a lending institution. If we need to verify the exact status of an AMC, do we also need to verify that the processor really has the authority to communicate with us?

We only do AMC work that pays decent fees. So we don’t do a large volume. But to this point we have never had an AMC that would not reveal that they were representing an identified lender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
Sorry cut and pasting is impossible from the ON-Line USPAP!


Of all people I would hope you would appreciate their efforts to protect their copyrighted material. J In all seriousness, I think this is a mistake by TAF.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:37 AM
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Of all people I would hope you would appreciate their efforts to protect their copyrighted material. In all seriousness, I think this is a mistake by TAF.
I certainly do, that why I am perplexed by their decison. Copyright affords protections for the owner of the intellectual property, as you know. If someone is infringeing, they should take action by either warning, cease and desist, or if that fails by legal remedy.

They also did not think about Fair Use! For us at this forum to use extacts and quotes as long as we give credit is "Fair Use". They apparently feel Fair use is to much to give considering someone is bootlegging USPAP.

They should change it back. The use of the on-line uspap at this forum is purely educational and clarification of rules. Seems rather foolish to deny that considering how many Skippies and Skippette Trainees there are roaming around out there.

-------------------------------

FTR, some(not all) issues of USPAP have been registered at the US Copyright Office. I dont belive the current version has been registered. That only means under infringement suit they would need to prove actual damages instead of relying on Statutory Damages for an award. Thats not very smart of them.

Here is a brain teaser. Is USPAP an original work actually protected under the copyright laws of the US GOV?

I say NO! DW, Do you know why I make that claim?

Here are clues:

http://www.asc.gov/default.aspx?id=6

http://www.appraisalfoundation.org/s...?CID=9&DID=172

I admit am stretching here a bit.

Last edited by Carnivore : 01-09-2009 at 07:51 AM.
  #4  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:44 AM
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I certainly do...They should change it back...Thats not very smart of them...
Wow. I said I thought what they were doing is a mistake. How much would you have posted if I had supported them?
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:55 AM
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Wow. I said I thought what they were doing is a mistake. How much would you have posted if I had supported them?


The same, I want them to re-think their postion. You understand the lost value in what they did.

--------------------------------

The TAF receives federal money in the form of a grant, I think USPAP is a commissioned work and thus belongs to the US Citizens. That does not mean we should get it for free, It means the TAF does not own it(accept as citizens)!
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:03 AM
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Lets get back to Stmt 9,

If some AMC calls me how do I know if they are indeed an agent for the lender?

If they are an agent then I can sue the lender for unpaid fees if the AMC goes BK! Right?
  #7  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:32 AM
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Carni,

Specifically, what is the issue? The client is the party that hires you. May or may not be the intended user. As long as you disclose that, what is the problem?
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:33 AM
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Statement 9

Disclosure of Client and Other Intended User(s) in an Appraisal, Appraisal Review, or Appraisal Consulting Report
Except when specifically requested not to do so as part of the agreement with the client, an appraiser must disclose the identity of the client and any other intended users in an appraisal, appraisal review, or appraisal consulting report. The purpose of this reporting requirement is to (1) ensure that the client and any other intended users can recognize their relationship to the assignment and report, and (2) ensure that unintended users will not be misled by notifying them that they are neither the client nor an intended user. For example, a statement similar to the following may be appropriate:

This report is intended for use only by (identify the client) and (identify any other intended
users by name or type). Use of this report by others is not intended by the appraiser.

If the client’s identity is omitted from an appraisal report, the appraiser must (1) identify the client in the workfile, and (2) provide a notice in the appraisal report that the identity of the client has been omitted in accordance with the client’s request and that the report is intended for use only by the client and any other intended users.

Identification of the Client and Other Intended Users in an Assignment
In order to properly define the problem under study and to understand his or her responsibilities in an assignment, an appraiser must identify the client and other intended users. This is accomplished by communication with the client prior to accepting the assignment.
An appraiser should use care when identifying the client to avoid violations of the Confidentiality section of the ETHICS RULE. The client may be identified as a person or entity, or as an agent of an intended user. In instances where the client wishes to remain anonymous, the appraiser must still document the identity of the client in the workfile but may omit the client’s identity in the appraisal, appraisal review, or appraisal consulting report.

Neither the client nor the appraiser is obligated to identify an intended user by name. If identification by name is not appropriate or practical, an appraiser’s client and the appraiser may identify an intended user by type.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
The TAF receives federal money in the form of a grant, I think USPAP is a commissioned work and thus belongs to the US Citizens. That does not mean we should get it for free, It means the TAF does not own it(accept as citizens)!
Question: USPAP was created April 27, 1987. FIRREA was adopted in 1989. Since USPAP was created before FIRREA was written, how can one claim that USPAP was "commssioned" via mechanisms created in FIRREA?

The federal government (and many other entities) recognized the document and agreed to assist in maintaining the document, but they did not commission it.

I know that in the past TAF has enforced the copyright to USPAP. Perhaps the accused just did not think of the creative defense you suggest.

Back to the feature attraction...

The payment issue is moot with regard to USPAP's statements on intended use. USPAP does not address payment or responsibility for payment. Many lenders ask appraisers to pick up checks at the door. That does not change the intended user.
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2009, 09:01 AM
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DW,

Payment aside, we are still talking about communications!

Would you tell someone something if you were not sure if they were actually your Identified client?

The AMC's commonly use the following "The client says you will do this or do that!"

OK, if the Client says that, and you refer to them as the Client, then Mr AMC who are you?
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