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  #1  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:46 PM
John Hassler John Hassler is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
State: California
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
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Default What would want an MLS report to help with the 1004mc?

I'm assisting our local MLS in developing a statistical report to assist with the 1004mc. The current plan is to use data collected by the appraiser (via a single or multiple searches and filtered as required) and then take this collected data and create a report in an easy to utilize format with the calculations done.


Among the questions I could not readily answer for MLS were:

1) How should the Total # of Comparable Active Listings be calculated? For, say, the 7-12 Month Active Listings would a search of ANY property with an initial listing date of 7-12 months ago be correct?

2) Is the Median Comparable List Price the Original List price or the Last List price for the period? I ask because LLP;SP is a much superior figure than OLP:SP. I believe we can do both.

3) What and how do you determine the Median Comparable Listings DOM? Are expired, withdrawn, temp off market, etc to be included in this? Should Cumulative DOM (CDOM) be considered?


The real bottom line is what would and appraiser like YOU like to see in this type of statistical report to complete the 1004mc?
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Last edited by John Hassler : 01-13-2009 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:26 PM
EDWARD BERRY EDWARD BERRY is offline
 
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Location: NW ARKANSAS
State: Arkansas
Professional Status: Certified General Appraiser
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Default

Hello John,

You Are Well Ahead Of Us In Action. We Have Wanted To Do This Also.

Thanks For The Land Mines.

Cannot Give Any Help Yet--but Will When I Can.

Arkie Ed
  #3  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:02 PM
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VegasWayne VegasWayne is online now
 
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Location: Area 24
State: Nevada
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Default

This would be useful as it would give the appraisers in the system consistant results. To give my opinion of the answers to you questions:
1. When a property is active is determined by two dates, the list date and the date it stopped being active; the contract date, the withdrawn date, the expired date or the date of the report for currently active listings. A property could be an active listing for all three reporting periods if it was listed in the first period and still on the market in the third.
2. Your guess is as good as anybody's. The instructions in the announcement don't specify which list price to use. I have noticed that in my mls system the original list price may have been put in in error and corrected the same day. For example the price may have been mistyped as 50,000,000 on a 500,000 price property. The original is not correctable by the agent.
3. I would determine the days on market by using the reported dates to calculate it.

Another land mine is what to do if a property has multiple listings in a period. A listing that has expired unsold, is foreclosed by the bank, and listed again at a much lower price could be counted in several ways. My opinion is to not count the prior listing at all and only count the more recent listing.

Last edited by VegasWayne : 01-13-2009 at 08:03 PM. Reason: spelling
  #4  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:07 PM
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Farm Gal Farm Gal is offline
 
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Location: Currently: Midwest
State: Nebraska
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John -


I haven't taken the how to fill the form class nor given it more than an intial glance at which point I was totally disgusted because there is no way to fill it out 'right'.

You have identified some of the primary pitfalls in ATTEMPTING to fill out that particular report.

Among other issues in my local market repeat listings by 'other' offices than the original listing office skews data badly - in the present environment intially overlisting a property appears to bring about an additional 10-15% value hit ... I have tended to ignore prior listings and only consider sucesful ones due to the fact there is no way to quantify the unskewed value(s) if you consider only proeprly listed homes.

Miss the first 30 day window and kablam - house sells for way less than it should have if properly listed intially!

Unless there is a property identifier in your system which permits immediate re-lists to be counted AND allows an appraiser to BOTH consider and avoid consideration of individual properties which were listed way higher than they should have been... .. and drag down the market on long term seller faith in the agent... RE- lists properly priced tend to go for 'expected' values for the area.

Therefore -- I agree that LLP;SP is a much superiormore relevent figure than OLP:SP shows what buyers seem to be thinking this week about reasonably listed homes!
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:37 AM
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Terrel L. Shields Terrel L. Shields is offline
 
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It's a joke in the first place. There are houses built in 2006 and early 2007 in our market that have never been "on the market". They are near identical to houses that are on the market by the same builder and are withheld until another one sells. That way those 2 year old houses are only "on the market" for 160 days or so.

As a practical matter, no matter what, the DOM is virtually never over 180 days...about the max a builder will leave a property with one Realtor. Only the occupied homes show a truer picture of the DOM.

Also, the FDIC is asking that information be withheld about many sales. Why I have no idea. AND, the local Realtor-Auctioneers are allowed to place listings for $1...trying factoring that listing price into an average...and with hundreds of properties being sold by auction....stats are simply out the window and totally unreliable.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:46 AM
John Hassler John Hassler is offline
 
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State: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasWayne View Post
This would be useful as it would give the appraisers in the system consistant results. To give my opinion of the answers to you questions:
1. When a property is active is determined by two dates, the list date and the date it stopped being active; the contract date, the withdrawn date, the expired date or the date of the report for currently active listings. A property could be an active listing for all three reporting periods if it was listed in the first period and still on the market in the third.
2. Your guess is as good as anybody's. The instructions in the announcement don't specify which list price to use. I have noticed that in my mls system the original list price may have been put in in error and corrected the same day. For example the price may have been mistyped as 50,000,000 on a 500,000 price property. The original is not correctable by the agent.
3. I would determine the days on market by using the reported dates to calculate it.

Another land mine is what to do if a property has multiple listings in a period. A listing that has expired unsold, is foreclosed by the bank, and listed again at a much lower price could be counted in several ways. My opinion is to not count the prior listing at all and only count the more recent listing.
Thanks for you input Steve! I hadn't thought of the "two" listing date possibility - this would add considerable complexity since one property could overlap two or even all three requested time periods.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:51 AM
John Hassler John Hassler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrel L. Shields View Post
It's a joke in the first place. There are houses built in 2006 and early 2007 in our market that have never been "on the market". They are near identical to houses that are on the market by the same builder and are withheld until another one sells. That way those 2 year old houses are only "on the market" for 160 days or so.

As a practical matter, no matter what, the DOM is virtually never over 180 days...about the max a builder will leave a property with one Realtor. Only the occupied homes show a truer picture of the DOM.

Also, the FDIC is asking that information be withheld about many sales. Why I have no idea. AND, the local Realtor-Auctioneers are allowed to place listings for $1...trying factoring that listing price into an average...and with hundreds of properties being sold by auction....stats are simply out the window and totally unreliable.
I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion of the form however that view will not stop it's implementation 4/1/09. How do you intent to supply the requested information? I'm asking because I my goal is to simplify the process.
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:43 PM
Gary Schinagel Gary Schinagel is offline
 
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State: New Mexico
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Default 2009 appraising!Estimated time increase for 1004MC worksheet

What has been typical turnaround time for additional MC sheet?
Ive been finding that it can run into 2-4 hours because we are basically juggling numbers back and forth.

UNDERSTAND THE ATTEMPT TO TREND FORCAST ADJ BUT UNREALISTIC!

Problems for reliabilty are noted:

Some MLS dont have criteria summerized.
Hard to verify.
Form is misleading past 3 months = 3 months (preferrrable reporting but what if your in season timeperiod? Relisted, improperly listed or marketed? 4-6 Months. Then 7-12 months. Are actives added to sales for the period when recreating? just amoung a few of many upfront problems.
Then they want DETAIL EXPLANATIONS of the TRULY MOST COMPARABLE. Thats also worth debate. Now if you choose just bracketed sales and actives in the area REGARDLESS OF VALUE RANGE? I dont know about you but most people are on a budget and if we fill in the BUDGET RANGE and combine it with bracket range and proximity THATS JUST TO MUCH LEFT FOR VARIABLE factors with NO standardized approach. Then we are valuing upfront when weighing typical budget constraints which to me are more of a deciding factor when I show properties to perspective Buyers. Reliability is not good for realtor reporting to start with, when we use tables then we are stating verification of all. Thats a huge open ended liability. FSBO's,undisclosed none listed sales or attempts,Short sales,REO's. What about areas with no MLS. Reviews for verification of same. Also my Lenders are requiring before April. 2-4 hours of additional time already on top of typical 2 pages of comparables and detail market descriptions.
Basically can anyone crank this additional data out in a standardized approved reporting format in less than 1 hour. The RELS market condition report is as usefull and much more straightforward. In the end analysis what helps the market is the Lenders putting back some of the money they got via bailout(it was not just meant for the owners) back into the market at record pricing lows not seen in years. The only ones who have been bailed out were the principals. 2-4 hours more work with reduced fees and continued expenses. Appraising 2009! I find myself working for the CPU! Sheez. Again if anyone has a benchmark approved system with an expected turaround time I can strive for I would appreciate regarding the 1004MC. Gracias
  #9  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:54 PM
Tim Hicks (Texas)'s Avatar
Tim Hicks (Texas) Tim Hicks (Texas) is offline
 
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Default

How the heck are you supposed to "trend" sales and listings statistics when you have virtually no sales in the past three months. Only the cookie cutter areas have usable data.
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:54 PM
PropertyEconomics's Avatar
PropertyEconomics PropertyEconomics is offline
 
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State: New Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Schinagel View Post
What has been typical turnaround time for additional MC sheet?
Ive been finding that it can run into 2-4 hours because we are basically juggling numbers back and forth.

UNDERSTAND THE ATTEMPT TO TREND FORCAST ADJ BUT UNREALISTIC!

Problems for reliabilty are noted:

Some MLS dont have criteria summerized.
Hard to verify.
Form is misleading past 3 months = 3 months (preferrrable reporting but what if your in season timeperiod? Relisted, improperly listed or marketed? 4-6 Months. Then 7-12 months. Are actives added to sales for the period when recreating? just amoung a few of many upfront problems.
Then they want DETAIL EXPLANATIONS of the TRULY MOST COMPARABLE. Thats also worth debate. Now if you choose just bracketed sales and actives in the area REGARDLESS OF VALUE RANGE? I dont know about you but most people are on a budget and if we fill in the BUDGET RANGE and combine it with bracket range and proximity THATS JUST TO MUCH LEFT FOR VARIABLE factors with NO standardized approach. Then we are valuing upfront when weighing typical budget constraints which to me are more of a deciding factor when I show properties to perspective Buyers. Reliability is not good for realtor reporting to start with, when we use tables then we are stating verification of all. Thats a huge open ended liability. FSBO's,undisclosed none listed sales or attempts,Short sales,REO's. What about areas with no MLS. Reviews for verification of same. Also my Lenders are requiring before April. 2-4 hours of additional time already on top of typical 2 pages of comparables and detail market descriptions.
Basically can anyone crank this additional data out in a standardized approved reporting format in less than 1 hour. The RELS market condition report is as usefull and much more straightforward. In the end analysis what helps the market is the Lenders putting back some of the money they got via bailout(it was not just meant for the owners) back into the market at record pricing lows not seen in years. The only ones who have been bailed out were the principals. 2-4 hours more work with reduced fees and continued expenses. Appraising 2009! I find myself working for the CPU! Sheez. Again if anyone has a benchmark approved system with an expected turaround time I can strive for I would appreciate regarding the 1004MC. Gracias

I spent four hours last evening running just sales in an area ... there were 173 over the prior 12 months. I analized them on a quarterly basis ... whole market showed increases, size range limitations show statistical garbage, price range limitations bracketing my subject value showed slight decreases in value with some fluctuations between quarters. I ran sales and resales of the same properties over a two year period .. two showed increases (appear to be flips) and two showed slight decreases that were minimal, ie $2,000 on a $250,000 sales .... none of which had concessions.
I fear this forum is going to be a cant see the forrest for the trees issue and as with others ... its nearly impossible to complete correctly when answering the questions they ask.
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