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  #1  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:00 AM
cemoody cemoody is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
State: Florida
Professional Status: Certified General Appraiser
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Default Is a Bedroom lacking a closet not a bedroom?

The Brevard County MLS will not allow a listing of an office room without a closet as a Bedroom. "Doesn't meet the criteria of a bedroom". Prior to calling the Brevard County MLS to ask about the basis for this I thought I would put it out to the appraisal community. What could be the basis of this position? Does FHA, FNMA, HUD, Freddie have any rules that would support this?

Secondly could a wardrobe cabinet be attached to the wall, if there is a requirement for a specific closet, to allow this room to quailfy as a bedroom in addition to being an office room?

Thank you for your response.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:14 AM
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David Wimpelberg David Wimpelberg is offline
 
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I have no idea as to the position of GSEs, but I can't imagine anything in writing being more than a guideline. There are plenty of circumstances where bedrooms without closets are common and acceptable to the market. Common examples would be in older homes (meaning pre WWII) or in many contemporary-style residences.

As always, guidelines can only be guidelines. The market dictates what is common and acceptable.
  #3  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:35 AM
Dennis J. Black, ASA, IFAS Dennis J. Black, ASA, IFAS is offline
 
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MLS Boards do all sorts of stupid crap. I remember many years ago there was an age field on land listings in one MLS to which I belonged. I always wanted to take a listing a put in 300 million years +/-.

You could provide them with all the documents you wan and they will do as they please. Save your time. Take your dog for a walk.
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2009, 09:41 AM
Mountain Man Mountain Man is offline
 
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We don't have a closet in our bedroom, we have a whole separate area behind the master bath that is dressing room/walk in closet.
  #5  
Old 05-21-2009, 12:36 PM
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lizhorvath lizhorvath is offline
 
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State: Michigan
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In the early 1900s and before, people (who were not only of apparently shorter stature in general) usually kept their clothing in armoires or wardrobes, and therefore, many homes 80-100+ years old just plain old weren't built with closets in the bedrooms. That didn't make them "Non-Bedrooms"...

Depends on the market, and it depends on the age of the house. These'a days I wouldn't expect to see too many bedrooms without closets being built, unless it was a "suite" where the closet was off the bathroom...
  #6  
Old 05-21-2009, 01:09 PM
fifteen fifteen is offline
 
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Attaching an armoire wouldn't make it a bedroom unless it's built in and basically a permanent part of the structure.
  #7  
Old 05-21-2009, 01:14 PM
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Ken B Ken B is offline
 
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Putting a closet in a room does not make it a bedroom, but a room without a closet could most certainly be called a bedroom if it meets other conditions typical of those for a bedroom. The primary question that must be answered is what use would the market typically apply to that room.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2009, 02:02 PM
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Caligirl Caligirl is offline
 
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Default Circular arguments.

In my experience, Real-i-tors have on the one hand, extremely creative ideas about how to describe things, and tunnel vision when counting bedrooms. Very curious.

Reminds me of the house I saw listed as a three bedroom. One of the three 'bedrooms' had closet space, but was a thoroughfare to the bathroom from the living room. The listing Real-i-tor counted this as a bedroom because it had a closet. We had a long conversation about how this couldn't be a bedroom as it was the only access to the bathroom from the living room. Ie, would you want guests and such tromping through your bedroom to use the bathroom, say while you are in bed asleep or perhaps changing your clothes. So then the Real-i-tor suggested she could count the enclosed, but unfinished, illegal garage conversion as the third bedroom, because it had a closet.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:08 PM
fifteen fifteen is offline
 
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HAHAHHAAA Caligirl - did you get that pronunciation from the commercial? lol. That lady has an odd way of saying it lol
Our MLS is cracking down and fining real-i-tors that don't count bedrooms properly - and a host of other things like not listing short sales as short sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligirl View Post
In my experience, Real-i-tors have on the one hand, extremely creative ideas about how to describe things, and tunnel vision when counting bedrooms. Very curious.
Our MLS is picking up these things and fining real-i-tors that don't count rooms properly.
real-i-tors lol

Reminds me of the house I saw listed as a three bedroom. One of the three 'bedrooms' had closet space, but was a thoroughfare to the bathroom from the living room. The listing Real-i-tor counted this as a bedroom because it had a closet. We had a long conversation about how this couldn't be a bedroom as it was the only access to the bathroom from the living room. Ie, would you want guests and such tromping through your bedroom to use the bathroom, say while you are in bed asleep or perhaps changing your clothes. So then the Real-i-tor suggested she could count the enclosed, but unfinished, illegal garage conversion as the third bedroom, because it had a closet.

Last edited by fifteen : 05-21-2009 at 04:00 PM.
  #10  
Old 05-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Walter Kirk Walter Kirk is offline
 
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Bedrooms without closets are still bedrooms, they just display functional obsolescence.

I recently appraised a property improved by a three bedroom house which had no closet in one bedroom, the side walls of the closet were there but there was no front wall or door. Since the house was recent construction I asked the owner why the closet wasn't finished. The owner told me that a three bedroom house would require a larger and much more expensive septic system so the building inspector suggested leaving the closet out and calling the house a two bedroom!
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