Real Estate Appraisal Forum

appraisersforum.com logo
The Premiere Online Community for Real Estate Appraisers!
 Fastest Way to Find a Real Estate Appraiser Enter Zip Code:
 
 
Go Back   Appraisers Forum > Real Estate Appraisal Forums > FHA/HUD and VA
Register Help Our Rules Calendar Archives Mark Forums Read


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-11-2010, 11:52 AM
CJ1234's Avatar
CJ1234 CJ1234 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
State: Minnesota
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 310
Default No Bedrooms, FHA

  • Subject is a 3 level split, built 1970
  • No bedrooms above grade
  • Basement has two bedrooms
  • Basement bedroom window sills exceed FHA basement bedroom classification requirement for "Below grade valuation" ("Windowsill may not be greater than 44") (3-3 4150.2) ATTACHED
    • Then there is a disclaimer to use reasonable judgement.
  • Sale. FHA.
  • Basement bedroom windows are daylight, large and meet the other two requirements defined by FHA
Secondary info:Subject market time is typical for market
  • Last sale in 2003 market time was typical for market
  • I've determined adjustment for the basement bedrooms based on two measurements
    • Looked at the sale in 2003 to determine the market reaction at that time
    • Looked at the very few similar sales with only below grade bedrooms, outside the subject's market (with appropriate adjustments).
    • Both of these indicate a similar adjustment
Help me work this out. Do I state this as a 0-Bedroom Above grade property with 2-bedrooms below grade, and clearly note that the basement bedroom window sills do not meet the FHA critera spelled out in 4150.2 section 3-3. Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

Or am I missing something here? Off base?

I will be out of the office for the next 2 hours, but appreaciate all comments/feedback.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HUDManual.pdf (14.9 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by CJ1234 : 02-11-2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason: correction of typo
Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 02-11-2010, 01:41 PM
BRCJR BRCJR is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
State: Virginia
Professional Status: Licensed Appraiser
Posts: 3,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1234 View Post
  • Subject is a 3 level split, built 1970
  • No bedrooms above grade
  • Basement has two bedrooms
  • Basement bedroom window sills exceed FHA basement bedroom classification requirement for "Below grade valuation" ("Windowsill may not be greater than 44") (3-3 4150.2) ATTACHED
    • Then there is a disclaimer to use reasonable judgement.
  • Sale. FHA.
  • Basement bedroom windows are daylight, large and meet the other two requirements defined by FHA
Secondary info:Subject market time is typical for market
  • Last sale in 2003 market time was typical for market
  • I've determined adjustment for the basement bedrooms based on two measurements
    • Looked at the sale in 2003 to determine the market reaction at that time
    • Looked at the very few similar sales with only below grade bedrooms, outside the subject's market (with appropriate adjustments).
    • Both of these indicate a similar adjustment
Help me work this out. Do I state this as a 0-Bedroom Above grade property with 2-bedrooms below grade, and clearly note that the basement bedroom window sills do not meet the FHA critera spelled out in 4150.2 section 3-3. Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

Or am I missing something here? Off base?

I will be out of the office for the next 2 hours, but appreaciate all comments/feedback.

Tell it like it is, as it appears, you are on top of the situation.
  #3  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:50 PM
CJ1234's Avatar
CJ1234 CJ1234 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
State: Minnesota
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 310
Default

BRCJR--Thank you.
  #4  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:52 PM
Mike Kennedy's Avatar
Mike Kennedy Mike Kennedy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southern Hudson Valley
State: New York
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 28,044
Default

Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

If so (as demonstrated by comparables with similar Layout, Utility, Appeal and Buyer Acceptance), there is no C2C for Functional Utility. (Fannie/Freddie)


However:

FHA / Gross Living Area
Room design and count should reflect local custom. A dining area built as an L-shape off the kitchen may or may not be considered a room depending on the size.
To determine whether one or two rooms should be counted, hypothetically insert a wall to separate the two areas that have been built as one: if the residents can use the resulting two rooms with the same or more utility without increased inconvenience, count the room as two. If the hypothetical wall would result in a lack of utility and increased inconvenience, count the room as

4150.2 1/06 D- 27

one. The room count typically includes a living room (LR), dining room (DR), kitchen (KT), den (DN), recreation room (REC) and one or more bedrooms (BR). Typically, the foyer, bath and laundry room are not counted as rooms. A room is a livable area with a specific use.


Room Count and Gross Living Area Field Protocol



Finished area above grade contains
To complete this section, enter the total number of above grade rooms, the total number of bedrooms above grade, and the total number of bathrooms above grade. Do not include foyers, basement finished rooms or unfinished attic space.
• Calculate square footage by using exterior dimensions.
• Enter the total square footage of the gross living area above grade.


* you are the Appraiser in YOUR market.
__________________
Kill the Contract Review Bull$eye - Now.

Last edited by Mike Kennedy : 02-11-2010 at 04:02 PM.
  #5  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:58 PM
CJ1234's Avatar
CJ1234 CJ1234 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
State: Minnesota
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kennedy View Post
Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

If so (as demonstrated by comparables with similar Layout, Utility, Appeal and Buyer Acceptance), there is no C2C for Functional Utility.
Thank you Mike Kennedy. That's what I was thinking, so I'm glad there is a second opinion. Appreciate the feedback.
  #6  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Webbed Feet's Avatar
Webbed Feet Webbed Feet is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: City of Free Speech
State: Other Non-US
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 12,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1234 View Post
<....snip......> Note that the market appears to accept this property as a 2-bedroom below grade property. Note the cost to cure?

Or am I missing something here? Off base?

I will be out of the office for the next 2 hours, but appreaciate all comments/feedback.
I'd like to read three to seven paragraphs as to how you arrived at a cost to cure with all your support for it... Right after you explain what is being cured.



P.S. or I agree with Brother Kennedy...
  #7  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:07 PM
Tim Hicks (Texas)'s Avatar
Tim Hicks (Texas) Tim Hicks (Texas) is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Crowley
State: Texas
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 11,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbed Feet View Post
I'd like to read three to seven paragraphs as to how you arrived at a cost to cure with all your support for it... Right after you explain what is being cured.



P.S. or I agree with Brother Kennedy...
What could the cost possibly be to slide four bumper jacks under that thing and jack it all above grade? Or a back hoe to dig the entire thing out might be cheaper? Balloons?
__________________
Please don't log on here and ask for our blessings unless you are prepared to accept the truth.
  #8  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:12 PM
Pittsburgh Pete's Avatar
Pittsburgh Pete Pittsburgh Pete is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
State: Pennsylvania
Professional Status: Certified General Appraiser
Posts: 11,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Hicks (Texas) View Post
What could the cost possibly be to slide four bumper jacks under that thing and jack it all above grade? Or a back hoe to dig the entire thing out might be cheaper? Balloons?
Those were my thoughts as well--or possibly the reduction in value arising from only marketing to dyslexics--when they're downstairs they think they're upstairs--makes no difference to them!!!
__________________
All our knowledge brings us nearer to our ignorance--T.S. Eliot
  #9  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:14 PM
CJ1234's Avatar
CJ1234 CJ1234 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
State: Minnesota
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbed Feet View Post
I'd like to read three to seven paragraphs as to how you arrived at a cost to cure with all your support for it... Right after you explain what is being cured.



P.S. or I agree with Brother Kennedy...

This is what I've been struggling over. "Right after you explain what is being cured" ---Thanks. I think I was just floundering there for a moment.

I have about 10 sales in the area (not in the actual city, but in competing markets) over the last two years which show market times in line with their specific markets. I also have the data from the subject's last sale, where the market time was well within the standard for the market.

Thanks for the help.
  #10  
Old 02-11-2010, 04:18 PM
CJ1234's Avatar
CJ1234 CJ1234 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
State: Minnesota
Professional Status: Certified Residential Appraiser
Posts: 310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburgh Pete View Post
Those were my thoughts as well--or possibly the reduction in value arising from only marketing to dyslexics--when they're downstairs they think they're upstairs--makes no difference to them!!!
LOL.

We've had a few oddball properties lately...All sales. In this market, why are people buying the oddballs?!?!?
Sponsored Links

Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
     Terms of Use  Privacy Policy
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at AppraiserSites.com

Fastest Way to Find a Real Estate Appraiser Enter Zip Code:
Partner Sites:
AppraiserUSA.com - National Appraiser Directory AllDomainsUSA.com - Domain Name Registration
DeadbeatListings.com - Deadbeat ListingsAppraiserSites.com - Web Hosting for the Professional Real Estate Appraiser
Find FHA Appraisers - FHA Appraiser Search Commercial Appraisers - Commercial Appraiser Search
Relocation Appraisal - Find Relocation Appraisers Domain Reseller - Business Opportunity
Home Security Buzz - Home Security Info Radon Testing - Radon Gas Info
My Medicare Forum - Medicare Info Stop Smoking Help - Help Quitting Smoking
CordlessPhoneStore.com - Great Cordless Phones AndroidTabletCity.com - Android Tablet Computers

Follow AppraisersForum.com:          Find us on Facebook            Follow us on Twitter


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 PM.

SiteMap: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93