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  #1  
Old 11-11-2011, 08:36 AM
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Vernon Martin Vernon Martin is offline
 
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Default Value of a cave with winery use permit

I'm working on a property in Napa County which is 41 acres of raw, hilly land with no vineyards, but has a winery use permit and an excavated cave of about 18,000 sf.

Winery use permits have value in Napa County, but establishing the value of one on a non-vineyard property is challenging. The existing appraisal (borrower-ordered) estimates the value of the permit at $1,750,000. I've tried one paired sale comparison so far that would suggest a maximum value of $866,000. Does anyone have any other ideas about pinning down the value of a winery use permit?

Caves can be useful for wine production due to their cool interiors, but valuing a cave is also a challenge. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernon Martin View Post
I'm working on a property in Napa County which is 41 acres of raw, hilly land with no vineyards, but has a winery use permit and an excavated cave of about 18,000 sf.

Winery use permits have value in Napa County, but establishing the value of one on a non-vineyard property is challenging. The existing appraisal (borrower-ordered) estimates the value of the permit at $1,750,000. I've tried one paired sale comparison so far that would suggest a maximum value of $866,000. Does anyone have any other ideas about pinning down the value of a winery use permit?

Caves can be useful for wine production due to their cool interiors, but valuing a cave is also a challenge. Any thoughts?
Give me a call, sent you a PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:17 AM
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Sent you a PM with a contact. I have another contact if you need one.
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:38 AM
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This must be a California thing...
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:45 AM
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There is an entire city of caves which are leased on the banks of the Missouri River in Kansas City .... the cave system even has their own zip code ... much different than what you are valuing but cool storage definately has a market.

There is also a winery in Lone Jack Missouri that utilizes a cave as storage for the wine ...

Probably not very helpful but they do exist.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:08 AM
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Caligirl, I didn't get your PM.

Last edited by Vernon Martin : 11-11-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:10 AM
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A winery doesn't need a vineyard. A winery with a vineyard is an estate winery.

*Is this the Carriger Estate?
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Last edited by CANative : 11-11-2011 at 11:23 AM.
  #8  
Old 11-11-2011, 11:40 AM
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*Is this the Carriger Estate?
No, it was formerly owned by Gary Houck.
  #9  
Old 11-11-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Winery use permits have value in Napa County, but establishing the value of one on a non-vineyard property is challenging.
I don't see why that's a challenge or even if the two components are tied together.

This guy?

ITEMS 10 AND 11 WILL BE HEARD TOGETHER
10. RYAN WAUGH / GARY HOUCK – USE PERMIT EXCEPTION REQUEST #P06-01008-UP-CONSERV
CEQA Status: Subsequent Mitigated Negative Declaration Prepared. According to the proposed Subsequent Mitigated Negative Declaration, the proposed project would have, if mitigation measures are not included, potentially significant environmental impacts in the following area: biological resources.
REQUEST: Approval of a Use Permit Exception to the Conservation Regulations to construct an access road and a parking lot at a winery cave entrance on slopes that exceed 30%. The project is located on a 41.35-acre parcel off a private road approximately 1,300-feet west of Soda Canyon Road and approximately four miles north of its intersection with Soda Canyon Road and Silverado Trail within the AW (Agricultural Watershed) zoning district. (Assessor’s Parcel #: 039-640-001) 2275 Soda Canyon Road, Napa. ST

11. RYAN WAUGH / GARY HOUCK – USE PERMIT REQUEST #P05-0391-UP
CEQA STATUS: See item #10.
REQUEST: Approval of a Use Permit to establish a new 30,000 gallon per year winery with: (1) construction of ±16,000 square feet of caves to be used for all winery operations; (2) on-site parking for six vehicles; (3) three full-time employees and one part-time employee; (4) tours, tastings and retail sales by appointment only with an estimated 30 people on the busiest day, and an average of 70 per week; (5) a marketing plan with 17 activities per year consisting of: six private wine and food events for wine trade personnel per year with a maximum of 20 guests and an average of 10 guests; ten private wine and food events per year with a maximum of 100 guests and an average of 30 guests; one private harvest event per year with a maximum of 200 guests and an average of 75 guests; (6) an open house during the Napa Valley Wine Auction for Auction ticket holders from 11:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M during Wine Auction week; (7) a new access driveway off an existing private road; and, (8) three 15,000-gallon water storage tanks for fire protection, domestic water, and waste water processing. The project is located on a 41.35-acre parcel off a private road approximately 1,300-feet west of Soda Canyon Road and approximately four miles north of its intersection with Soda Canyon Road and Silverado Trail within the AW (Agricultural Watershed) zoning district. (Assessor’s Parcel #: 039-640-001) 2275 Soda Canyon Road, Napa.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:13 PM
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I read the use permit and the expiration date was in 2008. Is there a situation in which a Napa County winery use permit can remain valid after the expiration date, or is a new use permit required? The Napa County offices are closed today.

Last edited by Vernon Martin : 11-11-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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