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18 Reasons not to get the vaccine

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J Grant

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An alternate approach can be taken. We know who the vulnerable portions of the population are. Those persons can take extraordinary measures to protection for themselves, and the rest of society can function normally. If I was a vulnerable person, that is what I would do all on my own. I would consider it rude to demand all of the rest of society to take extraordinary and economically damaging actions just because I had underlying conditions (many of conditions of which are preventable in the first place).
we already did that, that phase is over, the vulnerable are mostly vaccinated. NOW in order to maintain re open, USA needs to get 80% or more herd immunity and to do that takes a high vaccinated rate.

The virus is still spreading even though the older population is mostly vaccinated, and immune, do you fail to understand that ? Covid is spreading now among younger and healthier people and mutating to more transmissible and vaccine resistant strains.

I would consider it rude to demand all of the rest of society to take extraordinary and economically damaging actions just because I had underlying conditions (many of conditions of which are preventable in the first place).

This is not about an underlying condition, because you don't spread diabetes or high blood pressure etc to the person next to you. But you can spread covid to them.
 

Head Surfer

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This is not about an underlying condition, because you don't spread diabetes or high blood pressure etc to the person next to you. But you can spread covid to them.

Don't you get that "vaccinated" people can spread covid also? Again, the "vaccines" do not keep you from getting or spreading covid. It just lessons the symptoms when you get it.

So your theory of "let's all get vaccinated to protect everyone" is not valid.

I get it. Most people are afraid and think (or at least hope) the government is acting in their best interest. So they go along. It is the path of least resistance. People can be sold anything. Look at Nazi Germany. The German people believed Hitler was best for them.. Looking back it seems incredible. This "virus"has been used to control the world and make huge profits for a very few. One day we will look back in disbelief that so many fell for it and went along..
 

Peter LeQuire

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I chose to be vaccinated. I don't sit around in my retirement studying what new disease of accident is lurking just outside my door (with a key). I am - and I use the word witout hesitation and with a grateful heart - blessed to enjoy very good health, with no significant threatening conditions or disease. And while the Second Law of Thermodynamics is at work in my eight-decade chubby little body, I can still do most of what I need to do and a lot of what I'd like to do. My regular doc thinks I'm some modified form of anti-vaccer because I don't get a seasonal flu shot, nor do I get vaccinated against shingles, pneumonia, tetanus, thyphoid fever, diptheria, pertussis, hepatitis (regardless of letter), bubonic plague, nor do I get vaccinated for any of the exotic diseases extant. All that to say that I'm in a high risk group because of my age, but am in good healty and probably would have low risk of illness, or at least a relatively uneventful course with the disease, should I be exposed.

I think many of the restrictions on maskless activities are stupid - but I respect, for example, businesses and other public places that want customers/clients (and employees) masked. (And, yes, I've had people retreat from me in public because of their fear of contracting the virus.)

I could rant on. In sum, I've been vaccinated. I don't fear contracting the disease from the sorts of contact I'm likely to have in public, but I don't want to be a vector for the disease. My life is too short to engage in recurring arguments about the efficacy and risks of vaccination with others. I despise those who are promoting the constantly morphing pseudo-science about the disease, its transmission and its adaptation as a constant, virtually uncontrolled evil organism intent on wiping out humanity. More than that, I despise insulated bureaucrats and politicians making decision and remaining immune from the effects of those decisions, from POTUS to the local health department clerk who is "working remotely".

Who's being infected? In my limited circle of friends and aquaintances with whom I have contact or about whom I receive information from time to time, there have been a saddeningly high number of deaths: among them, one of my wife's cousins; one of my younger brother's buddies from high school and beyond; the husband of a friend from church; the spouse of one of my wife's coworkers; and more. An aquaintance from church (late 40's age) is in his fourth week in the hospital with the CV-19 disease- his heart has stopped twice; he's had as many procedures to help him breathe as there are procedures to do so (oxygen, ventilator, respirator, trachyostomy); he's recently been put on dialysis; he has to be kept sedated so that he doesn't get agitated. It's a tough disease and tough to see someone experience it - as well as tough to see how taxing it is on family members.

I'm grateful that Head Surfer is allowing this to be discussed in this Forum. The underlying public health concerns ought - in my non-practicing appraiser judgment - to be of concern to the valuation profession.

I've assessed the risks, and have decided that, at least for today, it's OK for me to be in public
 

J Grant

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Don't you get that "vaccinated" people can spread covid also? Again, the "vaccines" do not keep you from getting or spreading covid. It just lessons the symptoms when you get it.

So your theory of "let's all get vaccinated to protect everyone" is not valid.

I get it. Most people are afraid and think (or at least hope) the government is acting in their best interest. So they go along. It is the path of least resistance. People can be sold anything. Look at Nazi Germany. The German people believed Hitler was best for them.. Looking back it seems incredible. This "virus"has been used to control the world and make huge profits for a very few. One day we will look back in disbelief that so many fell for it and went along..
You are immersed in conspiracy theory -. Thinking this virus is being used to "control the world?" Comparing this to Hitler? The virus was not made to throw profits to a few, the fact that a few companies ended up profiting from it -so what -a few profit from any condition economic or otherwise.

There is virtually no evidence covid is being spread by vaccinated people, look at the plunging numbers of cases and deaths in the older population after they get vaccinated. So you are wrong about that .Imo CDC is being cautious and advising all wear masks since they know the irresponsible people who did not get vaccinated will run out and ditch mask wearing .

Note that you you deliberately did not answer my question did you get tested for covid, yet you claim you had it ),- . and here you are, trying to convince others to go along with a crazy reasoning for not getting vaccinated. Refusal of vaccine will prevent herd immunity and allow covid to keep spreading and as it spreads, it is mutating into stronger strains, and there is evident the new strains are hitting younger and healthier people .
 

Peter LeQuire

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Refusal of vaccine will prevent herd immunity and allow covid to keep spreading and as it spreads, it is mutating into stronger strains, and there is evident the new strains are hitting younger and healthier people .
Vaccination is only one of many ways to thin the herd - the disease itself can do a pretty effective job.
 

Peter LeQuire

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And one other thing - If you haven't done an advanced care directive (or 'living will"), do so. Speaking only for myself. I can rant in this (or whichever) forum (fora?) all I want about CV-19, whether to vaccinate, vaccine safety, uncertainties about transmissibility and on and on, but at the end of the day, whether it's this virus or any one of literally hundreds of illnesses and occurences that can make it impossible for me to communicate, I want whoever is telling the medical people what to do and what not to do to have a properly executed, legally enforceable document that instructs what medical efforts I want made to attempt to preserve my life and/or restore health. (I've also been cautioned that many/most hospitals have language in the admission documents that gives them and the attending physicians broad authority to order whatever medical tests and procedures they consider appropriate - and that in many jurisdictions, such admission permissions are considered to supercede any health care directive.

(Personal aside - the father of an aquaintance, who was a CPA, attorney and tax agent had a stroke and went to the ER, unresponsive. A family member was with him and had the original of the care directive naming her as agent for health care. The directive was pretty specific that heroic measures were not to be taken. The hospital ignored the directive, citing the admission document's permissions as governing. Before the family could get a a court order (less than 48 hours after the father was admitted) the hospital, doctors labs and etc. had rung up almost half a million dollars - it took an expensive law suit to get rid of the judgment the hospital got to try to collect.)
 

The Warrior Monk

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we already did that, that phase is over, the vulnerable are mostly vaccinated. NOW in order to maintain re open, USA needs to get 80% or more herd immunity and to do that takes a high vaccinated rate.
Just based on age alone, 80% of the morbidity is in the 65+ age group. If you drop it down to 50+, that number increases to 95.5%. And that doesn't even consider underlying conditions.
The virus is still spreading even though the older population is mostly vaccinated, and immune, do you fail to understand that ? Covid is spreading now among younger and healthier people and mutating to more transmissible and vaccine resistant strains.
The relationship between age and underlying conditions, and the effects of virus, is well known at that point and is simply staggering. It's unscientific and dangerous to treat all groups as equal.
This is not about an underlying condition, because you don't spread diabetes or high blood pressure etc to the person next to you. But you can spread covid to them.
You entirely missed my point. Many underlying conditions are preventable, or can be reversed, simply be making lifestyle changes. And doing so will result an increase in the ability of the body to fight this disease.
 

The Warrior Monk

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Vaccination is only one of many ways to thin the herd - the disease itself can do a pretty effective job.
Definitely if the person has underlying conditions or is elderly. For the remaining low single-digit percent, it's not a big deal.
 

J Grant

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Vaccination is only one of many ways to thin the herd - the disease itself can do a pretty effective job.
lol
Just based on age alone, 80% of the morbidity is in the 65+ age group. If you drop it down to 50+, that number increases to 95.5%. And that doesn't even consider underlying conditions.

The relationship between age and underlying conditions, and the effects of virus, is well known at that point and is simply staggering. It's unscientific and dangerous to treat all groups as equal.

You entirely missed my point. Many underlying conditions are preventable, or can be reversed, simply be making lifestyle changes. And doing so will result an increase in the ability of the body to fight this disease.
NOW that phase is over, with most of the 65 plus age group is vaccinated, so what is the morbidity rate for all the younger folks who get covid ? And for those who contract a severe case and survive, some have long term effects . You STILL refuse to answer yes or no were you tested for covid since you claim you had it !! So what credibility do you hope to have ...

Nobody is treating all groups as equal, but the fact remains younger and healthier people are also contracting covid and seems at a higher rate of transmission with the emerging variants. You seem to want to ignore that fact, much like you ignore the question I posed.

Now you are trying to divert the thread to underlying conditions and anility to fight disease, which while valid ( shut down the fast food restaurants and petition Americans to adapt healthier life styles ?), while I am all for that, it is off topic about getting vaccinated against a transmissible disease.

Certain folks kept screeching about freedom and resented the economic pain of the lockdowns, yet now that vaccines are here and getting vaccinated is what WILL allow mass of life and people to return to normal, these same folks are resisting getting vaccine!!

Let's see a bunch of folks go refusing free vaccines and let covid spread and mutate to stronger variants that affect younger people. Yeah, what a great plan (sarcasm )
 

J Grant

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Certified Residential Appraiser
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Florida
Definitely if the person has underlying conditions or is elderly. For the remaining low single-digit percent, it's not a big deal.
Why is it "no big deal" when younger and healthier people suffer the same deaths or severe illness from covid when they get it ? ...

And bear in mind, many young and otherwise "healthy" people ALSO have an underlying condition such as diabetes or high blood pressure. That is just the way people are. If a sizeable portion of folks refuse vaccines, it is a gamble - maybe virus will die out, or maybe it will keep keep spreading and as it spreads, keeps mutating to stronger strains - and possibly strains that will be vaccine resistant. .
Based on the stronger variants emerging and accelerated cases in nations with low vaccination rates, the latter seems likely.
 
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