$250 Appraisals?

[rescom]

Big difference between a commodity and a service. We don't increase the demand for appraisals when we lower fees. The appraisal will be performed irrespective of the fee. The undercutter is simply pulling food from their competitor's mouths by scabbing their fees.

I have no respect for these people, and, I have news for you. The clients do not either. Some newbie loan officers may order appraisals from them for awhile....until the undercutter goes out of business because he cannot afford E&O, MLS fees, updated software, ink cartridges, make his house and car payments, car insurance, pay for CE classes, pay for nenewal of his license and gas for his car, AND feed his family because of scabby fees.

Yeah Mike, I suppose your right. No work is better than low paying work. "Sorry honey, no money this week. Sorry kids. No more clothes or shoes because daddy is sticking it to the man. Yes family, I understand that there are plenty of other appraisers working for less but daddy is too proud to compete with other appraisers that we look down on."

Its not going to change. Deal with it.

 

[rescom]

They are. Or, just plain stupid.

Like most people you have not deducted your cost of doing business. I won't go over it again but if you really want to know, check Ray Miller's post a couple months ago where he very accurately laid out all the costs of doing business. Truth be known, even at full fee, our "take home" pay is not a living wage in most areas.

Wow! So Ray Millers cost of doing business is correct for everyone? Nobody is more efficient than Ray Miller, huh? Ray Millers costs are way exaggerated. I can promise you this. Nobody is losing money working for lower fees. Its idiotic to even suggest that.

 

[Mr Rex]

Too bad so sad when the kids grow up and realize that Dad was an idiot that gave away his profession for peanuts. My dad was an auto mechanic, and always told me, never give away or discount what you do for a living. He was the best locally, and everybody dropped by for free advice or a once over diagnosis, and were promptly rebuffed.

 

[Michigan CG]

I figured in a couple minutes that my fixed costs and estimated gasoline costs me about $1,300/month. Wife provides health insurance. Does not include taxes or retirement.

 

[Scott Kibler]

Anybody not doing business exactly the same as me and charging a penny less than me is an idiot who is damaging the industry and just might be the target of Karl's innuendo.

The union brothers should take heart at a scab's testamonial to be found here:
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=139952&goto=newpost

 

[Ray Miller]

Wow! So Ray Millers cost of doing business is correct for everyone? Nobody is more efficient than Ray Miller, huh? Ray Millers costs are way exaggerated. I can promise you this. Nobody is losing money working for lower fees. Its idiotic to even suggest that.

Now you have made a statement that my cost are way exaggerated. Would you care to give me a break down per line item of your cost then???

By the way don't cut any corners I was listing for a full time professional appraisal office and covering all cost of doing business.

--------------------------

As for the post with the cost of $50.00 per apprisal and netting $20.00 per hour net $200 per appraisal, would you also give us a break down of your cost of doing business.

40 hours per week x 4.4 weeks in a month = 176 hours a month x 12 months = 2112 hours per year less 80 hours for vacation = 2032 hours x $20.00 per hour = $40,640 pre tax income. You have 10 hours in each report = 203 reports per year divided by 12 months = 16.9 reporst per month divided by 4.4 weeks per month = 4.22 reports per week.

203 reports x $50.00 +/- = $10,150 per year in business cost divided by 12 months = $845 per months divided by 4.4 weeks = $192.00 per week in business cost.

Please share your business model with me at least. I need to bring my cost down to this. When my Commercal Liblilty, E & O and Commercial Auto Insurance Policy cost more then half this amount.

I had no fear of listing my cost. How about you???

Some one check my math I did this in a hurry!!!!

 

[Farm Gal]

Wow! So Ray Millers cost of doing business is correct for everyone?

Didn't see anyone say anything like that, 'cepting you. Best to attack the ideas and NOT the person here, buddy. Says so in the forum rules.

Ray Millers costs are way exaggerated.

And you know this how? Ray calculated actual costs in some cases down to the dime. A process that very darn few of us take the time to do and ought to... Fact is rural takes longer costs more and ain't slam-dunk any of it! You ain't in his market ( are you)!

I can promise you this. Nobody is losing money working for lower fees. Its idiotic to even suggest that.

I can assure you that those of us working in rural areas OR in small metro areas on the outskirts of major metros are hurting when the under trained and inept invade 'our' markets. And the fact that the fast-n-loose crowd are losing money doesn't matter to the clients, and doesn't matter either to those trainees who desperately want to get their licenses, and actually PAY to get a signature to the right.

When you consider ALL the costs of doing a REAL business
(taxes, health/property/liability/insurance, other overhead such as replacement reserves for equipment and software, a need to put SOME money away for retirement, long term health insurance and other 'benefits' which are rapidly approaching 'necessities') ...it is becoming ever harder to earn a living wage as a sole proprietor in ANY field... but one in which the putative liability and return on investment for education and other 'costs' is as high as appraisal it become terrifying.

Some folks have an ability to cut costs to the bone and live in a roommate situation, (and god bless em for it).

Some of us have kids approaching the college years, elderly family members to care for, and a need for sufficient income to weather major medical expenses that come with increased age. MOST PROFESSIONS expect by right and history to have acceptable compensation for their efforts Ya wanna be atechnician? Best pick a trade where it is highly regulated by unions, and govenrment and simultaniously in great demand - or the market calls your wages 'too high'.

NO, not everyone who accepts a low fee for work is pond scum, but I can assure you that underbidding ALL the competition all the time has never promoted a successful business model in ANY profession or industry.... and tends to throw the market into disarray during the transition to a new market norm - loss of practitioners or decreased need because of poor product quality. Economy of Scale only takes you so far. Even Wal-mart is learning this fine lesson. :icon_mrgreen: (and not a moment too soon -- say I) It will be interesting to see if their gorilla tactics creates an implosion or if they learn something and re-tool. (Pbbbtt~~NO I didn't mis-spell guerrilla).

The same can be said of this 'profession'... which is just waiting for the first AMC to declare us:new_2gunsfiring_v1: 'technicians'... and decrease the 'wages' even further.

 

[Karl]

Sometimes some post thoughts & words on this forum that do NOT warrant a reply.

Ya can lead em to the water, but you can't make em drink.

Guess there is no law that says you should have some business sense to be an Appraiser.

Sad so many Appraiser's lack business sense.

 

[Michigan CG]

Folks, you have to realize that you are competing with people who have 90 hours of education, one year of "apprenticeship" and limited exposure, who were trained to hit numbers. They have never done a market analysis, they have never taken a course from a respected provider and they don't know that they are doing things wrong. They do not read the local paper for information on their local market, they do not read national newspapers for clues about national financial markets. They can pump out three reports per day. They don't know that the work they produce is complete BS.

To make matters worse, they were trained by people with the same credentials, one year of "training", 90 hours of education and no ethics, morals or insight. They were not taught to get verification of sales, to research the market or stay within neighborhood boundaries.

These people were taught "the list"....I have talked to people who were given "the list"...a garage is worth $zzz, additional SF is worth $25 for these homes, or $40 for these homes.

This is now your competition. I have a great sympathy for credible, experienced appraisers who have extensive knowledge, education and credibility. Unfortunately commission paid mortgage brokers and Realtors don't care about that. They just want their commission, no matter what they have to do to get it.

Reality sucks, but it is what it is. Too bad many of our "peers" do not value properties that way.

 

[Roy Courtney]

Let’s say that I office out of my home. No need to charge the AMC for that as I have to live somewhere. Phone expense is something that I would have at home anyway. That also goes for internet service. Auto expense, well I do not want to walk so I would also have had a vehicle. That goes the same for insurance, fuel, taxes, postage, maintenance, utilities, clothes and groceries. Why should they be expected to pay any of that!

Just for the heck of it I made this little comparison. Say the AMC gives me one appraisal each workday at $100.00. This would be $500.00 each week and I would supply all of the expenses.

I just looked up a job at the city for a 911 dispatcher. It pays $13.00 per hour. A 40 hour week would equal $520.00. So would I be $20.00 per week better off? Maybe better since the city will provide life, medical and dental insurance also. But they also match my retirement account. Wait, they give me a two-week paid vacation after one year of employment. What is a paid holiday? I never had that before. I would have to wear a uniform but they furnish it. It may get boring as I would be inside a heated and cooled building all the time. I would not get to work in the rain or snow. But, there is a catch…they require a high school diploma or GED. I am only a real estate appraiser, how could I ever meet those qualifications?