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A college degree tune up?

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Larry Lyke

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
This is an argument against requiring a Bachelor's Degree to become a real estate appraiser; or many other professions:

More than 40% of college graduates did not correctly identify what fairly well-known document the following phrase comes from:

"... government of the people, by the people, for the people ..."

60% said The Declaration of Independence. [or something else; wrong]
 

Frederick R. Ruffell

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
It is sad. But the reason is, probably, that 40% of college grads. were never given a civics class in their education. I do not think it is a good argument against requiring a Bachelor's Degree to become a real estate appraiser. What bearing does "... government of the people, by the people, for the people ..." and it's corresponding document have to do with the practice of appraising? Requiring a Bachelor's Degree, in a related and relevant field (i.e. real estate, statistics, business etc.) is a good idea as it would serve to increase the competancy level of appraisers, possibly resulting less fraud, more respect as professionals, appraisal boards focused on things other than complaints, etc. Just my opinion, and of course I have a BS. I think those word come from the Constitution, but then again I got my pre highschool education in England where these things are required study.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Hmmm...

Seems to me that the $$$ amount of fraud goes up with the educational level.

Education doesn't mean a thing when it comes to ethics. I've seen many, many college graduates that can't speak, write.... or think. I do believe it would raise the level of 'perceived' professionalism. Just not in reality.

IF the powers that be actually wanted to do something about this mess, they would change the lender select process and set up a peer review system. Plus, make being a supervisor/trianer a specialized process where the supervisors would have to be 'certified' to be able to have trainees and the training period would have to be paid for by the trainee. It's way too easy to become an appraiser and, in general, the ones that do take on trainees are the unethical sweat shops that don't train at all.

My $.02
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Pam
you hit it right on the head; the more educated attempt to beat the system at all costs and it goes well up the food chain.

Larry - your correct, most do not go to learn, the perception has been if you have a degree, you warrant better pay & a better job. It does not warrant that you'll become any more ethical.

The only benefits reaped over the past few years, are bron by the Colleges across the country, as enrollment has more than doubled and so has the teachers pay scale. It is similar to public edumacation, and many other theory's - get as many students into a class that you can and harvest the money, who cares if they learn. Have always found that when politicians get involved in a cause, it goes in the toilet shortly thereafter, and Taxes (or costs) increase dramatically.
Take a look at what teachers now have to do for their classes, they spend more time meeting requirements than they do teaching, and the teaching is not what it used to be. This will be a big mistake and by the time it's caught, we'll be ten years behind again.

If it "sucks" it's usually of more truth and school requirements right now suck.

8)
 

Charlotte Dixon

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Delaware
Hmmm...
Education doesn't mean a thing when it comes to ethics. I've seen many, many college graduates that can't speak, write.... or think. I do believe it would raise the level of 'perceived' professionalism. Just not in reality.
I sure agree with that Pam. Plenty of college grads I've seen lately scare the heck out of me. Maybe in the "old" days, when college was taken a bit more seriously...but today???? It seems anyone can get in college because like with everything else...the standards have been lowered..."perceived" professionalism...exactly :!:
 

bradellis

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Larry,

Typically, civics is given in high school- at least where I am from.

By your reasoning, high school diplomas should not be required either.

Brad Ellis, IFA,RAA
 

Roger

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Missouri
Along these same lines....

It appears to me that many young people get out of school today with no knowledge of property rights.

This came to my attention recently when a group of local farmers was looking for a place to set up a farmers market to sell their produce. A young person suggested that it be set up in a site that had recently been vacated by a lumber/hardware business.

The reason for placing a market on this vacant property was that "no one is using it anyway". There was no consideration that some one already owns the property, and may have plans for it.

These types of attitudes scare me.
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
You wonder about the lack of understanding in today's young people. An article in Sunday's Dallas Morning News showed that basic civics was taught in only 10% of the public schools today. If one doesn't understand the rights and responsibilities in the U.S., you get a bunch of people who want entitlements without knowing what they cost, both in $ and in freedom.
 

David Mullen

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
If you took 1000 college graduates and 1000 non-grads and asked the same question, you might have a valid set of data.

If you read the reports prepared by 1000 college grads and 1000 non grads, there would be a good chance that they would have better spelling, grammar, etc.

Not that the reports would be any better or more honest, but they would certainly look better to the average reader.

If I received a writted report from an accountant, lawyer, teacher or other "professional" and it read like many of the "appraisals" that I see, I would quickly move on to find a different "professional" in whatever field they represented. I would have no confidence in their ability to do the job even though I might be wrong.

Like it or not, we are judged by the quality of our work and that includes communication skills. Our reports represent us and many times, they are the only thing that anyone has available to judge our abilities.

That perception is then extended on to everyone else in our field. Recently, I had a trust prepared up by a lawyer and while there, he asked what I do for a living. When I told him, he chuckled and said "that is a really easy job". He is not alone in that perception of our trade and that will not change until we all do something to clean up the business and make it at least look professional.
 
A

Anonymous

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>>Seems to me that the $$$ amount of fraud goes up with the educational level<< Amen sister

Ken Lay, the infamous ENRON executive, is actually Dr. Ken Lay, Phd. in in economics if I recall, and was an SEC staffer during the 70's.

Attempting to "scientificate" the appraisal business will undermine the business of appraising. This nation is going to have plenty of trouble finding enough people to appraise property the way it is. A degree is meaningless in appraising, especially since no college appears to respect it enough to even offer a degree or minor on the subject.

Further, don't make the mistake that most appraisers do that the world revolves around only houses and land. Appraisers are extremely important for appraising mineral rights (need to be a geologist or petro. engineer, right?); farms (agri degree?); timber (forester?); and a host of other things that were intended to be appraised when the government did what they did.

I recall a case where a 20 year geologist's testimony regarding mineral value was thrown out of court because he was not a licensed appraiser, but some idiot realtor's testimony was accepted because he was a member of NAMA or some other lightweight appraisal organization. Economics or other related degree is non-sensical to appraising timber or minerals, and a degree requirement would only eliminate accurate mineral or timber appraising. The first person sanctioned in Arkansas was done so for appraising timber on a land form....dumb...dumb...and degreed.

Honesty has about as much to do with the level of education as bullfighting has to do with the department of agriculture. If any relationship exists, it is an inverse one.

Ter
 
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