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a key sticking point is the ‘appraisal fee’ has been hard-fixed, quoted up front, and difficult to change,

Meandering

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Professional Status
Real Estate Agent or Broker
State
Pennsylvania
and thus far, consumers who have shopped for the best rates in 2018 have averaged a savings of $28,000 for a $300,000 loan, almost 10% of the loan amount.


Not $200 from an appraisal.

And it is still not relevant.

AMCs could accept less.

They hold no liability for the report.

There is no reason for them to get more $$ than it takes to send one email and resend another one.

.
 

Meandering

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Feb 26, 2006
Professional Status
Real Estate Agent or Broker
State
Pennsylvania
Don't drink the kool aid.

Appraisers own the problem, because they accept less money, and then claim it's because the poor lenders can't do expense reports to know that borrower's weren't charged enough money based on "low quotes" that are put on the TRID.
All the while, the AMC is collecting a variable fee, based upon how low an appraiser will go to accept the work.

Kool aid from both sides.

.
 

OSU Beavers

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Oregon
$300 in 1992 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $536.94 in 2018, a difference of $236.94 over 26 years. The 1992 inflation rate was 3.01%. The inflation rate in 2018 was 2.44%. The 2018 inflation rate is lower compared to the average inflation rate of 2.48% per year between 2018 and 2019.
$300 in 1992 → 2018 | Inflation Calculator
www.in2013dollars.com › 1992-dollars-in-2018 › amount=300
Now do health insurance.

$218 per month when I started appraising -> $1100+ now!
 

Carnivore

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Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Now do health insurance.

$218 per month when I started appraising -> $1100+ now!
Not just Health Insurance(cost) but Also Education. Cost. If i can find the Chart I viewed Recently , it was amazing how those to are out of control

The Heath Insurance/Medical Cost I can understand because of Innovation & Technology advancements. Those two items have improved life tremendously!

Our cost to do business have increased BUT so did our efficiency. Problem with the Efficiency is all the savings have been given to the user, and we have realized very little profit margin increase.

college-cost.png college-med-cost.jpg
 
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Non Sequitur

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Feb 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Louisiana
If the fee is fixed why do I get calls asking for fee and turn time?
If a lender is calling they’re trying to avoid having to redisclose or eat part of the fee. If it’s an AMC they’re shopping, just like appraisers who shop CE or E&O, often at the last minute.

What’s being ignored in all of this is what the CPFB letters stand for and why the agency was formed. And appraisers who think the CPFB will ride in on a white horse and change their lives are going to be disappointed.
 
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Renee Healion

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Feb 21, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
Non, it is just that that consumer board is whom we would ask for change. AI Pres mentioned removing appraisal fees from the locked items in his committee appearance last June. It has been written about. I hope the lobbyists we do have are pressing for it. Asking is a long shot but is there any other way?

The argument that there is not a shortage of appraisers but rather a shortage of appraisers willing to work at a deep discount is similar to the "you can't make me work for no profit" on orders that appear at the same fixed fee quoted in TRID as routine assignments. And when the routine fee is just passable and has not gone up in years, then there is no making it up on average. All you can do is say no. Some large lenders or AMCs will consider paying up because they have the volume. But others stand by the disclosure and do not open their wallet.

The agency should consider it. It is a small part of the whole disclosure package and the potential fee increases to be commensurate to the work would still be a very small part of what is being paid by the borrowers. I wonder if it would even be that controversial. (Uncharacteristically optimistic here!) :)
 

Peter LeQuire

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Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Tennessee
Some discussions seem never to change. While I've retired from earning money by performing appraisals, I used to and still do think that there is just something morally stinky about a lender lying about the cost of a service and profiting from that lie. If I'm in the business of buying and selling blivots, I buy a blivot for $X.xx and sell it to you for $Y.yy, making $Z.zz profit in the process, there's no harm, no foul (or fowl - it is Thanksgiving), it's just a profit. If you tell a client or customer that her transaction requires a product or service, and that she must bear the cost of that service, IMO it's wrong to charge her more than the service costs you (unless, of course, you disclose the mark up). (And I wonder if the Chairman of Wells Fargo would have squirmed any more if he had been asked how much his bank earned on "appraisal" fees it collected in excess of what it paid for appraisals.)

And I get that the lender is responsible for paying the appraiser - but IMO, the lender has (or ought to have) a responsibility to not misrepresent what monies it collects are actually used for.

Just my opinion - feel free to make it your own.
 

ucbruin

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Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Massachusetts
"...just something morally stinky about a lender lying about the cost of a service and profiting from that lie."

Can we agree this doesn't just apply to the lender? :unsure:
 

Renee Healion

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Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
Peter, while some complaints are evergreen, this PIA is only about 3 years old. It changed in late 2015, if I recall correctly. TRID is the current disclosure package for consumer lending- it integrates disclosures upfront and replaces the HUD-1 at closing. So it is a sweeping document change. Also changed, a few of the fees disclosed in advance could not be changed. The appraisal fee is now locked--upfront. This disclosure is made before the appraisal is ordered, let alone accepted.

It is not a case of the the lender or AMC taking part of what the consumer thinks is the appraiser's fee. A direct lender, competing with its peers to offer the lowest fees, with no AMC, discloses the appraisal fee to the consumer. The appraiser says, Oh my, this bizarre subject will take a blivot-and-a-half of my time. But the regular 1 blivot fee applies, says the lender, take it or leave it, because we can't change it.

Now some lenders have tiered fees, or may be willing to go within a % of change allowed (my interpretation of TRID) but most may not want to enter into that. Actually, if an AMC is involved, they may be willing to increase the fee, and so, take less on their end in the interest of getting the order placed when faced with some reluctance.

It is just a bad part of the reg. I wish they would change it. Can I have it now lol
 

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
If a lender is calling they’re trying to avoid having to redisclose or eat part of the fee. If it’s an AMC they’re shopping, just like appraisers who shop CE or E&O, often at the last minute.

What’s being ignored in all of this is what the CPFB letters stand for and why the agency was formed. And appraisers who think the CPFB will ride in on a white horse and change their lives are going to be disappointed.
CBFP is and was the problem- a bureaucracy from hell :)
 
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