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But The "Lender" Says You Can *Re-Cert*

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jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
The great ole American language, told everyone that after the First of the New Year, we would be restricted by USPAP - on re-certs/updates; to provide information as it would be considered a "NEW ASSIGNMENT" per the Rules; (told three -3 (3) people in the same orifice the same thing) did anyone LISTEN - nop, they called taday to tell me the "Lender" said they would accept a Re-Cert. 8O :? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Called em back to let them know I purchased 3 new tickets for the next shuttle into outer space cause I think they belong there; and if they had a shuttle that would go a little further, I'd spring fer the extra bucks to git them all to URANUS - a little forummmm humor :lol: :lol: :lol:

shazbutt, mork from ork is lookin hard fer these folk

8)
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Welcome to the club, J. :D I had one this week with a very similar situation. The fecal mater hit the atmospheric distribution device when I said No can Do. 8)

Just before hanging up, the LO was really ticked off and said that I was not being reasonable, and he never had this trouble with other appraisers. They always gave him the "recert". Errrrr

www.appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5798
 

Fred

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Virgin Islands
jt,
Uranus might not be far enough. I may need to go to Pluto. 8O

SMT-7 was edited to remove certain language pertaining to commonly used terminonogy. Please cite me the USPAP passage that now "restricts" recerts and updates.
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Steve

*Regardless of the nomenclature used, (Steve- can you splain-"terminonogy" to me :?: 8O :lol: :lol: ) when a client seeks a more current value or analysis of a property that was the subject of a prior assignment; this is NOT an extension of that prior assignment that was already completed - it is Simply a new assignment. (you can aks my ole boss about my arguing that he was getting screwed fer years -bet he wouldn't want ta figure out how much he's LOST over the years :wink: )

*An "assignment" is defined in USPAP as;

a valuation service provided as a consequence of an agreement between an appraiser and a client - walaaa

8)
 

Jo Ann Meyer Stratton

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
The termology from Statement 7 was moved to Advisory Opinion 3. Recertifications could be done but would be totally useless for a lender. A "recert" does not change the effective date of value. If the lender wants the appraiser to consider new market data to know if the value is still at least what it was four or more months ago, then the lender is actually asking for an update to a prior assignment. Advisory Opinion 3, which has actually been in effect since the 1995 USPAP. However Fannie Maes guidelines from 1994 to 6/30/2002 described recertification of values. That is what got lenders and appraisers very confused since the 1995 USPAP came out. Now Fannie Mae's guidelines in their Section 201 Age of an Appraisal, were brought up to date to what USPAP described. Those new guidelines do not use the "recert" word anymore--in fact, no where in their guidelines is the word recertification at all. What a lender/client and Fannie Mae want is an update to a prior assignment. Where Fannie Mae and USPAP have a descrepancy now is Fannie Mae says it is an extension but USPAP says it is a new assignment.

Fax the loan officer a copy of Fannie Mae guidelines Section 201 and ask them which report option of Advisory Opinion 3 do they want? A complete new package a complete package that incorporates by attachement the old report if is the original client or a new client. Or if it is the original client, would they accept a letter that has the seven items from AO-3 with a new observation of the subject and new market data if it is going to Fannie Mae.
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Jo Ann

agreed, there is more to it than meets the eye; my point is that many of the Lenders who play a major role in adding all of this language, don't have any idea what they're suppose to order. Why is this now our job :?: their the ones who want to Lend the money, don't they have any idea of how to protect their investors :?: :?:

if the request is for (an update-to use your reference) a report that is going to exceed the 120 period, at that point it becomes a sort of dead issue; you have exceeded the "Time Line"; if the plan is to close after the so-called "Time Line" - why not close it out before and avoid delays:?: :?: wasn't it just a few years ago the Banks were touting their ability to close loans within 30 days (via all this computer techno.crappola - I heard it over 15 years ago), and now they can't close em out in 120 days - guess that was some hot air ballonists idea of a funny.

oh well, back to the real world

8)
 

Ross (CO)

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
Yep, .....many can't close the loan in 120 days, or maybe even 60 days, let alone 30 days........and now they are attempting to put the Recert-Squeeze on some lowly appraiser who busted hump to get that report started, worked on, and completed in 48 hours ! Phew ! Talk-about fast turn-time.....and now months later the belched-back gas of a request for a "ReCert", ...pretty please ? Tell me if I am lucky.....or is it an indication that my clientele are not diverse enough or that I do not put out 3 reports ever day......but, I have never been asked for an "Update". When I read all of what the variations of updates can now entail.....it seems so much easier just to do another full report......and have the client toss the "old" report in the recycle bin.....or the shredder....or use the pages to light the night's fire in the wood stove.......or, buy a current AVM print-out for $25 and staple it to the old report , and voila !
 

Fred

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Virgin Islands
Careful jt, your old boss may be reading this. As far as "terminology" and "nomenclature," well, to tell you the truth, I "plagarized" that clunky sentence from the ASB word-for-word.

Jo Ann, At least we agree on something: that "Recertifications could be done." In USPAP, any assignment that develops and states a value is an appraisal, regardless of what other name, like update or recert, you use. (See definition of Appraisal Practice, line 31-35). This has always been true.

JoAnn, you write: "Advisory Opinion 3, which has actually been in effect since the 1995 USPAP"
Please note. What the ASB refers to as USPAP begins on page 1, line 1 with the words "Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice" and ends on page 122, line 4308. That span of pages does not include the Advisory Opinions, which, in the words of the ASB "do not establish new standards or interpret existing ones." AO-3 never "went into effect."

Jt, you say, "adding all this language," but that is the AO. Language was removed from the rule (SMT-7). Ross, mentions what updates NOW entail, but the rules did not change. In ROW work, I have updated appraisals four or five times (until they finally established a date of take) and I have reviewed giving a different opinion of value; and ALWAYS incorporated documents by reference. No sense re-inventing the wheel.

It is up to you, whether you want to tell your clients USPAP is now stopping you from issuing opinions of value. The intent of the ASB for 2003 was to allow appraisers to respond to these assignment requests in a more efficient manner:
1) by removing "recertification" and "update" from SMT-7 appraisers would not have to get bogged down in semantics; and
2) by offering advice (AO-3) on incorporating documents by reference, appraisers would not feel compelled to repeat or create new scope of work unnecessarily.
 

Jo Ann Meyer Stratton

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
Yes, I agree that Recertifications of Value can be done. Since a recertification of value does not change the effective date of the opinion of value, they are useless for a residential lender. A residential lender doesn't want to know if you really and truly said that the value on 6/01/2002 was $10, that lender wants to know if on 2/7/2003 is the value still $10? And with the change in the effective date of the opinion of value, it is now an update since the 1995 Advisory Opinion 3 and Statement 7, which came out attached to 1995 USPAP. A non-residential lender, attorney, court case, IRS, government agency or something might want verification that you did say a value was $zzz on a date in the past and then a recertification could be done in that circumstance. At least with the changes in Fannie Mae's guidelines 6/30/2002, it might be a little easier understood in the future, after employees of residential lenders and residential appraisers get out of the habit of calling what the lender really wants when they want current market activity a recert. And yes I agree and have agreed for many years that any assignment where an appraiser offers an opinion of value is an appraisal. The old Opinions of Value letters back before USPAP even existed were appraisals, just as the updates are today.
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Steven

you ole plagarizer u - just another piece of americana ayy; anyway, it makes me wonder why this "living document" maybe a protector of our rights to free enterprise OR an eternal berth at the gray bar hotel 8O

chatter has been going on for years regarding intrepretation's, I would suppose it may really come down to who's watching who or whom.
update, pupdate - why do we need to produce these puppies in 48 hours (Ross - CO) then :?: I know, I know keep the client happy and make em feel all warm & fuzzy (damn control freeks anyway).

8)
 
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