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Certify a Paint Job?

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Blue1

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
That's what the underwriter want's me to do....Here's the synopsis:

1) Inspected a property and noted peeling paint on the VC sheet.

2) Realtor calls and wants to know what to do.

3) Told him to call a painter.

4) Re-Inspected and saw peeling paint areas were re-painted and noted no peeling paint on CIR.

5) Now, the underwriter wants me to state that the peeling paint was scraped and coated with zzz layers of paint.

6) I called the Realtor today and told them to contact the painter and get a certification from them.

Did I do O.K.? I have NEVER been asked for this info before.....anyone else?
 

xmrdfghap

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
General Public
State
Florida
How can you be expected to determine the quantity of coats? You went way beyond what I would have done. I would have told the UW to contact the contractor.....I can verify there is no apparent peeling paint, but I have no idea what it was painted with nor how many coats were applied.
 

Blue1

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Greg,

Maybe so, but the Realtor hired the painter so she would know how to contact him. As far as I'm concerned, I'm out of the loop. I'm not going to certify anything and the painter can contact the UW OR the Realtor can. I've almost had it with FHA/HUD. Tired of all the ignorance and everyone wanting to place the liablity on my shoulders.... :evil:
 

rtubbs

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
For an FHA appraisal, this is the statement I use on the VC form anytime there is peeling, flaking, chipping paint on a pre 1978 house:

"Defective paint surfaces are located..... Repair must be made by a professional knowledgeable in lead-based paint treatment and the repair must conform to HUD and EPA guidelines. The appraiser is not qualified to inspect for compliance with those guidelines. In order to clear this valuation condition, the lender must obtain a certification from the individual performing the treatment."

I get a lot of flack over this but I stick to it.
 

Blue1

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Ron,

Thanks, I am going to use a statement like that in the future.
 

Mike Garrett RAA

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
I use this...

"The subject property contains areas of chipping and peeling paint. Those areas must be properly prepared and painted in a workmanlike manner with two coats of paint in a color which is consistant with the existing paint scheme."

The VA issued a letter that covers this also. I carry some on my clipboard and leave a copy with the owner or agent if I call for a paint condition. It also states "When appraisers re-inspect the required repairs, they should verify that the work has been completed properly, and in a manner that would not negatively affect value or marketability.
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Blue,

To me, it's not the amount of coats that really concerns the DEU, it's the method of preparation of the old paint prior to recoat if it's lead based. Paint is paint and should be applied as per the manufacturer's recommendation. So if it's a new one coat paint, so be it. Look under VC 12. See that 24CFR Part 35?. That's what the DEU wants you to bail her/him out from. Not your job. The basic idea is not to use a preparation method that would blow lead base paint dust around the dwelling which then gets onto things kids put in their mouths.

Here's the 24 CFR Part 35 junk. Have fun.

http://lula.law.cornell.edu/cfr/cfr.php?ti...e=part&value=35

Check Sections 35.140 and 35.145

So no, you can not tell the DEU that it was SCRAPED because you weren't there. That's the job of the painter.

Don't you just love it when they scrape the paint and leave the chips on the ground???. ..I make them pick them up because that's the purpose of lead base paint abatement--no chips for kid's to eat, inside or out.

As far as giving up on HUD work, don't. Just outthink the DEU...It's not that hard. Hell man, you're an appraiser!!!! :D :D :D

Read Ron's post in this thread and my post down below in the plexiglass window post. The trick is to write your VC Sheet conditions with no leeway for the DEU to throw it back on you. That's exactly what Ron did in his excellent example he gave to you. The DEU has no where to go with that one-she can't come back to the appraiser because the appraiser is not an expert and has said so. The DEU moves on to find one, AKA the painter.

When you write the VC sheet conditions, think of how to throw the liability onto the expert so the DEU doesn't come back to you. It's all in the words.

Here's something to ponder. Just suppose you approved the painting and the owner or painter used a method, such as belt sanding to prepare the surface. The lead base paint dust is all over the house. Who gets sued, if the owner's kid get lead base paint poisoning in the future?? Everyone, including you. You approved an improper removal/preparation method when you signed off on the VC Sheet condition.

So under the VC 12 A or B on the CIR, something like. "No peeling/bare or chipped paint was observed upon re-inspection. DEU to insure that repair conforms to 24 CFR Part 35 via contractor's certification."

Ben
 

rtubbs

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
All, the reason I began using the statement that I use is because of a document located on HUD's website entitled "Lead Paint Safety-A Field Guide for Painting, Home Maintenance, and Renovation Work". It's 80+ pages long and contains a heck of a lot more than merely stating that you need 2 coats of paint.

I venture to say that if any of you read what is required by this guide you won't be certifying that treatment complies with HUD guidelines unless you're there throughout the whole process. I just refuse to stick my neck out over a major issue such as lead-based paint.
 

Don Clark

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
Rtubs,

I agree with you. I also like the statement you use. Very, very few people(Appraisers, Realtors, Painters, etc) know how lead based paint is to be removed. It involves wetting down the surface and had scraping the paint. After that is done, the new coats of paint are reapplied. BTW, it is a Federal Law, Title 10, USA that was signed into law in December 1996 that requires that all real estate professionals disclose the possibility of lead based paint in residential properties built prior to 1978. This is not just a HUD requirement. Trouble is, I cannot tell lead based paint from any other paint by appearance, smell, sight, or most ordinary ways, and, since I am not an environmental scientist, i cannot test for it. As an appraiser, i simply state that "The presence of lead based paint and lead contaminants cannot be ruled out in the case of the subject property, due to the age of the subject property". That along with the aforementioned statement to the DEU should do the trick.

Don
 
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