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CONSECO BANKRUPT-NATION’S 3’RD LARGEST

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Austin

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Virginia
Paper, Paper. Read all about it. CONSECO declairs bankruptcy!!

Story Here: May have to sign in to read it.

http://www.nandotimes.com/front/story/6796...p-5059945c.html

Some quotes:
Conseco files for Chapter 11 in nation's third-largest bankruptcy
INDIANAPOLIS (December 18, 2002 1:33 a.m. EST) - In the third-largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, Conseco Inc. filed for Chapter 11 protection after four months of talks with creditors to restructure the insurance and finance company's $6.5 billion in debt.
From 1988 to 1998, the company's stock averaged a total return of 47 percent per year and Conseco shares traded as high as $58. Today, the stock trades at less than a nickel per share.
The filing covers Conseco Inc., the parent company, as well as St. Paul, Minn.-based Conseco Finance Corp. and its consumer finance subsidiaries. Conseco's insurance operations are not included in the filing, Lubbers said.

For a discussion to what brought CONSECO down read my post on this thread:
Manufactured Homes Finance Scam Brings Down Giant CONSECO

http://www.appraisersforum.com/forums/view...opic.php?t=4853
 

Austin

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Virginia
Do you guys not see the irony in this fiasco? I try to stay ahead of the appraisal technology curve by spending too much time on this forum listening to pundits hash out the nuances of USPAP. Scope, purpose, intended use, un-intended users, compliant comp selection, comments on USPAP changes, AF-ASC-AQB goings on, state appraisal board witch hunts (NCAB on going soap opera), people blowing off about doing reviews and asking should they turn the jerk in, complaining about AVM’s…you have heard it all.
While all of this is going on, what is going on in the very industry all of this was created to protect? We just had the 3rd largest corporate bankruptcy in US history all due to faulty collateral valuations, the major residential lending agencies like FNMA, FHA, VA, etc., are moving to AVM’s by-passing the appraisers, and the VA actually ran an add in a Virginia newspaper asking people to report lowball appraisers according to a post by Don Clark this week. Then according to Don Clark, the VA has an appeals system under which low appraisals can be challenged by allowing Realtors to supply additional comps (Cherry Picking.)
I am sorry guys and gals, but in my opinion this whole stinking process is nothing but a can of worms that is serving no useful purpose. I have been in this business for 30 years and it is no better under this appraisal regulatory system than it was before we got into this mess. To repeat: “You can’t pass regulations and force people with no power (appraisers) to police the corrupt people with the power (lenders). It is just one of those little quirks that come with living in a democratic society: “If mama says no, just ask grandmother.” Works every time.
I hope some newspaper reporter will read this thread and write a story on this subject. If you want the opinion of a state board Mr.-Ms reporter, call the North Carolina Appraisers Board and ask them what they have to show for their last 10 years of activities. I use the NCAB as an example because they are at the same time the most infamous (witch hunters) while being recognized national by other boards and regulatory agencies as the most progressive because they have $3,000,000 in the bank. Just ask them where the $3,000,000 came from, we would love to hear what they have to say about it.
 

Paul DelleDonne

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Delaware
Larry Kudlow and Jim Kramer would be perfect moderators for this topic.
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
Interesting call today from a Conseco LO. Would I be interested in doing a house that I did before asks he? (Dumb question) Yes says I but the inspection will have to be done after Christmas as we are booked until the first week of January. That will work says he. What is your fee? I tell him. Um says he, about $100 below out here (Guess he's in California or somewhere where the sun shines and everyone drives an SUV). COD or invoice says I. Oh COD says he. And oh by the way says he, how about a comp check? Oh no says I. That's a violation of USPAP. (Bet he thinks USPAP is a race car circuit)

Anyway, an hour later, the order pops over the fax along with a "Comps Request". Within 30 minutes, someone calls and asks if we got the order. Judy tells them yes. Well, says they, is there any way you could rush this and inspect it today or tomorrow? Not a snowballs chance in hell says Judy (or words to that effect). OK says they.

I return from a draw inspection and take a quick look at the order. Yep, I did the house before. Back in the year 98 when it sold for $55,000. Then I see the "Customer Est. Value: Need to get to $110,000" Someone may be smoking something that is against the law here. That about a 19% increase in value per year for a 50 year old 1512SF house with the only indoor lap pool that I have ever seen north of Kalamazoo.

No wonder Conseco went belly up financing deals like this. Get the appraisal value up, loan the money and then when the payments can't be made, you got a dog in a little town of 2,400 folks.

I have not declined the order as yet and my not. If I take I, I’m going to put some stipulations on it.

#1 The appraisal will be done complete once I start. No stopping for possible low value or deferred maintenance or frogs in the lap pool. You pays your money; you gets your appraisal. Period.

#2 They will get 4 comps; guaranteed. At least one will be a similar 2 bedroom.

#3 The report will be done in the order it is received and I will not promise any special delivery date so don’t try to tell me that I promised it on this day or that.

#4 Absolutely, under no circumstances, will any comps other than the comps contained in the report be provided nor will value be discussed at any time prior to or after the inspection.

#5 And finally, I will not appear in Bankruptcy Court as a character witness for anybody.

Sounds reasonable to me.
 
B

Bemis Pownall

Guest
we get consucko orders on occasion
they come with a REALTOR prepared BPO.

Our comps always seem to be different then on the BPO..

:drinking:
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Interesting, I have never had the pleasure.
Now, I guess I never will.
 

Verne Hebert

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Montana
Austin-

Nice post!

Let's cross our fingers. This thread may be kicked around some place worthy.

Happy Holidays!
 
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