• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Dead Cat Bounce, Spring Fling, or Tide Change?

Status
Not open for further replies.

John Hassler

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Dead Cat Bounce, Spring Fling, or Tide Change?


The market appears to be stabilizing here in the better towns. Sales volume is up, DOM are declining, and the SP:LP ratio is up. I'm only seeing this in the better towns which is where I've seen stabilization start first in the past.

Anybody else seeing some positive market changes?
 
Yes. We bottomed out in February, and things have really picked up since. However, banks are really cranking down on lending. They are not making any loans to investors who don't have at least 20% in cash, AND are basing loans on sales price rather than appraised value! So buying foreclosures with 100% financing is a day of the past. I'm actually glad for the change, it will greatly help me as most "seminar investors" I've run into in the past didn't even $5,000 in their bank account.
 
In San Diego, it seems that the opposite is happening. The market and the inventory in some of the better areas seem to be getting worse, and in the worst areas, that were hit very hard with sub-prime losses, it may be getting closer to the bottom.

In neighborhoods that I would consider "below average", where SFR and condo prices have dropped up to 40-50% from their peaks, there is a huge amount of foreclosure and REO activity, banks are pricing most of the REOs very competitively, and properties are selling, (at very low prices). But the number of pending sales and recent closed sales in these areas is definitely up. Prices are still trending down, but possibly the bottom is near, as more investors are buying. I don't expect prices to increase in these areas for years and years, because so many owners are underwater, and foreclosures will keep occuring for several years.

In the better areas, though, where prices haven't fallen as far, the market is still very slow, foreclosures are happening, inventory is expanding, and I think there will be another round of price declines over the next several years, as more of the 3 year and 5 year loans reset, and homeowners have little equity and can't refinance, (especially if they have a neg-am loan).
 
Glad to here things are looking better on the west coast.

My opinion is that we would truely know things are getting better until we've bounced off the bottom a few times and can look back to see it.:blush:
 
Spring is our traditional selling season so I would try and compare it to last year and see if the seasonal variation is similar.
 
In San Diego, it seems that the opposite is happening. The market and the inventory in some of the better areas seem to be getting worse, and in the worst areas, that were hit very hard with sub-prime losses, it may be getting closer to the bottom.
The good towns have taken almost no hit in value here however during the booming markets of 2003-05 they only saw minor appreciation. Overall very little value change from 2003-2008.

In neighborhoods that I would consider "below average", where SFR and condo prices have dropped up to 40-50% from their peaks, there is a huge amount of foreclosure and REO activity, banks are pricing most of the REOs very competitively, and properties are selling, (at very low prices). But the number of pending sales and recent closed sales in these areas is definitely up. Prices are still trending down, but possibly the bottom is near, as more investors are buying. After an absence of 5± years rental investors are back and picking up low end attached housing in average towns so we may be hitting close to bottom. I don't expect prices to increase in these areas for years and years, because so many owners are underwater, and foreclosures will keep occurring for several years. I agree.

In the better areas, though, where prices haven't fallen as far, the market is still very slow, foreclosures are happening, inventory is expanding, and I think there will be another round of price declines over the next several years, as more of the 3 year and 5 year loans reset, and homeowners have little equity and can't refinance, (especially if they have a neg-am loan). Virtually all the foreclosure action here is attached housing and some modest detached homes. Almost no upper end foreclosures. Full price offers in the first week or so of exposure have not been that uncommon during the last two months for average to better homes in the better towns.

1234567890
 
Nothing definitive, but the "better neighborhoods" thing is starting to feel more substantial.
 
All,

Certainly glad to see some areas improving. I am seeing that all over the country; just not in every area of the country.

Apart from CA we are seeing actual competing offers on properties in certain areas of western Michigan (per our REO brokers) while Detroit and environs remains severely depressed. That could be due to the state of the auto industry in part. And that spills over into parts of OH and IN as well.

In my view we still need a few more months to really determine if there is a change in the trend overall. As we have seen from so many articles, many players are of the belief that the market has bottomed. For me I still need more data, but am not ready to discount these players; they could be right.

I am convinced the bottom will arrive this year- on an overall national scale since there will be markets that remain troubled, of course. But, if that happens, I am fervently hoping that credit markets free up as that will be a major factor in helping those troubled markets as well.

Brad
 
Locally (San Diego County) the volume of sales of detached homes reported by the MLS shows that January 2008 was down by 23% compared to Jan2007, Feb2008 was down by 20.6%, and Mar2008 was down by a whopping 33.7%.

HOWEVER, Apr2008 was only down by 5% compared to Apr2007, and it was up by 30% compared to Mar2008. That's a pretty dramatic shift in volume. May2008 might turn out better that May2007.

Some of the bottom end homes are getting within range of parity with the local rents, but most of the volume seems to be in the $500k+ ranges. Go figure.

Personally, I think we're in for another round of price cuts later this year, only it'll be the middle price ranges that will adjust down into context with the bottom end. I don't think the upper end will start showing big declines for another year yet.

Then again, I would have never guessed I'd see some of these bottom end homes lose 25% or 30% of their value in a single year. That's the equivalent of watching an ice shelf break off and become an iceberg.
 
Some of the REO's in the markets I appraise in are selling with multiple offers in less than 30 days. A REO a few blocks from where I live sold with multiple offers before it every hit the market. The agent told me the neighbors all knew the house was an REO, and told friends that told friends that told friends, and before he could even get it on the MLS it sold.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top