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Digital Signatures - Fraud

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Pamela Crowley (Florida)

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Reiterating a discussion I had today.

If you give someone else the access to your digital signature, YOU are 100% responsible for what they sign with it.

Another take on fraud:

You sign an Appraisal as the Appraiser and you have a supervisor that also signs stating that they also inspected the property. If you don't know that the supervisor did inspect it and the supervisor was not there when you did the inspection, is it Fraud for you to sign the report knowing the information regarding the supervisor inspecting the property is wrong?

What say our USPAP and Law Gurus???
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Pam,

Why would anyone give another person access to their digital signature?

I won't give access to anyone.


Just curious...
 

airphoto

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
Pam,

If it's the supervisor who avers that (s)he inspected the property, what's your liability? You're not police .. and (s)he is totally responsible for the report ..
 

Pamela Crowley (Florida)

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
But, the trainee also signed and is also responsible for the report. The Florida State Board has reprimanded both and they share 100% each responsibility for delivering a misleading report.
 

airphoto

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
Pam,

I think they're kinda stretching that one .. bet a good attorney and a bunch of bucks would pin the board's ears back ..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bill, what appraiser can afford a lawyer?

The stupidity of the co-responsible parties provisions is one of the things which makes taking on a trainee a hair shirt job and totally unprofitable for both trainee and supervisor. It portends a future without replacements, which means there will be so few appraisers in 15 years that they will have to create a new class of valuators, perhaps called that, or evaluators, or like in Britian, Chartered Surveyors. A group who will value houses without the constraints USPAP and kangaroo law (regulation by amateurs) have imposed upon "appraisers." Over 50% of today's appraisers will be retirement age in 15 years.

The digital boogie man is insane. If I can get your signature and a photocopy of your stamp, I can forge your electronic signature using simple software like Adobe PhotoDeluxe or Elements, Pictureit, etc. to clean up the signature. Are we to believe that our signature cannot be forged? Are we to be held responsible for forgery? I think not.

The courts will eventually hogtie USPAP on such issues.
 

Don Clark

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
8)
Ter

If Charles Clark & the Georgia Appraisers Board have their way, you may be more accurate than you can imagine. I had the privilige of sitting in on a discussion of several issues today at the NAR Conference in Washington, DC. We had a speaker & Q&A 2 hour session with Danny Wiley from the ASB as well as Buntin from the AQB , Frank Gregorie from NAR, and Charles Clark as aforementioned. Georgia is asking for a change to FIRREA that would eliminate the Appraisal SubCommittee of the FFIEC as well as the control that the Foundation now has over CE, Pre License, and educational requirements in general. It would ultimately throw out the present framework and return all responsibility to the states regarding licensing & certification of appraisers, eliminate the deminimus, and too many other things to note here. I am sure Frank Gregoire will have a report here soon. I would suggest you contact Charles Clark of the Georgia Board for a copy. Or, if you want to e-mail me([email protected]) & give me yor fax number I will send you a copy. Also, the subject has been presented on this forum before & you may be able to search & find an e-mail or net connection re the subject.

Don
 

Don Clark

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
:(

Sorry, should have had this when I posted. Contact Charles Clark at: [email protected]

or at 404-656-3916

Don
 

Paulette in Texas

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
It may be politically incorrect, but...there are those of us on the exact same wave length. After 42+ years of working together, inspecting together, and sleeping together...yeah, lucky me, if I start the sentence, my significant other can finish it and the revesal. But then, we are always together. As to any one else having access to our signatures? NOt in this lifetime. Thanks, Paulette in Tx
go w...
Rotts rule and Shih tzu is fine.
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Pam;
first off you started your question as the "appraiser" and then after Bill answered you switched to the "trainee" by adding "also".

#1- Digital signatures (no one has access to mine except me & sometimes I resrve the right to not allow me to sign my own work :lol: ).

#2-Mr. Airphoto makes a good point; but lets look at reality- your Supervisor is the person over & above you; if he/she elects to sign off as "inspecting" the property, how do you know if he/she did or did not :?: If he/she wasn't there at your inspection, does it mean they did not go at another time :?: If they claim (by signing) that they inspected the property, it sounds to me that you as the understudy can neither confirm nor deny their involvement. As the supervisor, when they put their signiture to the report, they assume FULL responsibility for that report and the defense of it :!:

You can now take the fifth, so that you are not mislead by the adversary attorney in the case. Happy Holiday (pick one)

8)
 
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