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Does Going Public Help?

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neverwilllearn

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2002
New info on a problem I had posted about many months ago. I recently had a Real Estate Agent pull actual Home Sales for my Subdivision for the period 7/15/98 to 7/15/99 after the Bank who did my Home Equity Loan consistantly ignored my Five requests for the Appraisal used in Conjunction with my 7/15/1999 debt consolidation home equity loan. The Bank wrote on the contract the FMV of $115,0000. To my sheer surprise, there was Not a Single property, not a single solatary one (except one with a Pool) who's Price per square foot came even close to the Price per square foot of the 30plus homes that Sold during that Period. The average home sold for about $95,000 with the average sq foot being the same as my home. I assume the Bank can't give me the appraisal because there is nothing they could compare NOW to justify a $115,000 amount. I totally relied on the Appraisal the Bank required me to get from THEIR sources. :?:

As I mentioned previously, on my 2000 home equity loan the bank wrote a FMV of $117,000 and 9 months after the contract was written, I was able to finally secure the appraisal they used. It was a freddie mac one for $103,054. The Bank refuses to answer why they never showed me that at closing. The Real Estate agent that pulled the 1999 sales also pulled for me the Actual sales prior to my 2000 loan. Same thing as above, out of 50 home sales, 48 had a significantly lower Price per square foot. The CEO of this Major Bank refuses to comment or answer my questions in the many letters I've written to him.

I would have had to pay the Equity PLUS lose the Equity the Bank portrayed that I would have still had in 1999 had I sold my house. Now this little home-owner without Money is forced to get answers via a Federal law suit. The Bank is the holder of my lien and they are the ones who chose NOT to show me the lower appraisal amount they had in their possession. This should have never happened. What am I doing in Federal court. This is a nightmare.

Do you think uncovering this Scam publicly helps my case or hurts it??? Your opinion please.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
I would go public in as BIG a way as I could. You are just one of thousands, maybe millions. Many more are happening every day. IF/WHEN this type of situation does hit the big media, many eyes will be opened. Talk to your attorney regarding advertising for a class action suit for this particular bank. If you have public records where you could find all the mortgages they have recorded, those are the people that should be contacted. Also, those that have been foreclosed upon.

You will find many that don't want to do anything because all they want is the money from the non-existant equity for as long as they can get it. Others will be in the same position as you are. Some that are in the same position, but just don't know it yet.

Try Bill O'Reilly on FOX news, for one. It is also possible that all will be covered up due to what this information could do to the whole US economy. The banks really do run the government.
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
Neverwilllearn,

What happened to all the money you kept borrowing? Why do you want the bank to pay for your spending? Who cares how much your home is worth......if you can't afford a $103,000 loan, don't get one, use the money, and expect someone else (bank, tax payers) to pay your loan off. You're using a real estate agent to back up your claims of wrong values? Unless this real estate agent is a licensed/certified appraiser, you're asking the wrong person. Recently I was asked to appraise a house, I did the appraisal, and it was clean, plenty of recent similar comparables to use with very small adjustments needed. Value was $90,000. The homeowners were surprised at the value I arrived at. They said that a bank pulled an AVM on it and it was worth $110,000 and a realtor had told them it was worth over $100,000. It's not, unless they add about 300 square feet to the top level, 3000 sf to the lot, etc. Which value is correct? You got it, the licensed/certified appraiser that actually walked through the house, did a thorough examination, and a good clean report. The AVM and realtor's values were based on a few stats that the homeowner provided. Get an appraisal from a licensed/certified appraiser!

Call me mean spirited or whatever, but this is the second time you've posted the same "poor me" message. As I tell my friends and family, "suck it up and deal!" You borrowed the money, you spent the money, now pay the loan back like any decent honest adult. Quit whining about the fact that the bank wants you to pay for money you borrowed, and quit telling everyone you meet about it. It was probably a stupid decision on your part, and I'm guessing that instead of taking responsibility for it, you'll be dwelling on it for the next few years. Do yourself and everyone around you a favor.......suck it up and deal.
 

Terry Russell

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Montana
neverwilllearn,

If the events you posted happened as you state, then you are a victim of predatory lending. The crime here is the method the lenders used to arrive at the value of your home. This resulted in you being lead to believe it was worth more than it is,was and if the loan is based on a specified LTV, BINGO, you have every right to holler like hell and I would encourage you to do so.
I do not believe you ever stated that you are a real estate professional of have more than typical consumer knowledge about the lending process. Is this correct? If so you are finding out and educating yourself "after the fact" which is, unfortunately, the case for so many who find out the cash out option was a bad idea because there was no cash.
This may not be the most effective place to have your questions answered since there are so many here who have become so defensive of their occupation they are blind to the actual issue.
I would go to the highest federal authority you can and hammer on their door until they drag you away, (they won't). If you firmly believe that you were mislead about the terms of your loan then do not give up. EVER.
terry
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Hon:

yell scream and holler as loud as you can...

Get as MUCH media attention as you can get IF:::

You are willing to have your life exposed (in every facet regardless if it has anything to do with the topic or not. If you are the perfect little school marm you are still going to get some bad press, are you UP for it?
Are you willing to accept that some folks are going to badmouth you to a greater degree than you may find comfortable?

IF and only if you are truely blameless in the bigger picture, and
If you can look in the mirror and still think it is worth it for yourself AND your kids... the make noises everywhere you can....

I would have the media contact the state reps and banking comission etc also, and if you can find out whether any of those individuals own part of that bank it might be a REAL newsworthy issue. :twisted:

Good luck
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
I have to be honest.......I can't believe the other responses to this topic. All of the other responses are telling neverwilllearn to go after someone else, because he/she is a victim. And you're all basing this on what? The advice of one realtor, most likely with no appraisal experience, that did a 5 minute comp search on a computer? Are you guys for real?

I'm looking into my crystal ball, and seeing neverwilllearn doing this again in a couple of years, and all of you chiming in again about the poor victim. Neverwilllearn didn't even get a copy of his/her appraisal. I don't think that he/she was interested in the value, just wanted the money. The loan officer probably told him/her how much it was worth, and neverwilllearn just said "ok, do I get some money?"

I've got a wild scenario.......what if the first couple of appraisals were accurately done by decent competent appraisers such as most of us on this board claim to be. What if the housing market has declined in the past 2 years and now it's not worth as much. But I must be wrong, because I get so many loan officers, realtors, and homeowners that tell me it never works like that; all markets increase approximately 6-15% per year.

Here's the wildest idea yet.......instead of instructing this person to go after the evil bank and appraisers, why doesn't he/she have an ACTUAL APPRAISER do an appraisal or review one of the others already done. (If you can't tell, I'm fuming out of frustration when appraisers instruct someone to do something based on the valuation of a realtor's 5 minute comp search.)
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Graindart:
I am basing my responses to the specific set of plaints from some past posts by this individual, I see nothing wrong with advising her to seek public opinion/assistance to bring to light what APPEARS to be some slightly shady dealings on the part of the financial institution she dealt with.

Now here's true confession time, I also have been a 'victim' of similar practice. I sought a bank loan to purchase some property for development. We bought a block of lots, reworked the lot lines built a few houses at exactly the wrong point in time for the local market, and nearly lost our shirts. Other with similar ideas wound up giving the houses back to the bank. We managed to exit financially intact, but the bank officer got real shifty when I asked for the copy of the $450. appraisal for which I had paid. Recall my current and then profession.

Now granted I was greatly releived when told that the property had 'appriased out', but then since I HAD done a 'subject to' appraisal I was certain it would. I could not make the banker too mad demanding a copy, because he also funded our construction loan. So about 12 months later when the houses sold, I went in and DEMANDED, a copy of the appraisal. His response was: 'waffle, whine, can not find'. I did eventually get a copy of the 'work' for which I paid, but not til I threatened to play hardball and complain to the banking commission and go public... one page, hand written, had two lot sales (date, size dollars), and a conclusion which said 'because I said so'. Said conclusion in my opinion overstated the lots value by about 100%. And the jerks sure wouldn't hire ME for any of thier work :roll:

Now maybe the area in which you live has real banks and real appraisals... but lemme tell you there is also a certain portion of this country wherein folks are paying $$$ for real appraisals and not getting what they paid for, NOR is are the results always of legitimate market value. This gal MAY have validity, she may not, but ANYONE willing to stand up and spit in the bankers eye is going to get some encouragement from me, since I think our professional livelihood is at stake. AND:

Because I don't think the banks ought to be loaning other folks life savings and the FDIC insurance coverage for which I personally am ultimately responsible on badly formulated notes!
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
I think that the common thread with people is that they don't care about the appraisal until they want to try to blame someone. A number of people are mentioning that they never got an appraisal that they paid for. However, this is not the banks fault, but rather the homeowner/purchaser's fault. If you ask for a copy BEFORE the closing/funding of the loan, you'll get it fast. I've never closed on anything without at least taking the time to go over the appraisal (even before I was an appraiser). If a certain area has bad appraisals/appraisers with crappy one page hand written notes that are considered professional appraisal reports, then why don't you people look at the stuff you're paying for. To go back 1-4 years ago and look at something and then complain about it is stupid. Don't blame the bank for your own stupidity! If you'd requested a copy of the appraisal BEFORE closing/funding of the loan, I'm sure that the banker would have found it pretty darn quick. And if you saw that it was a poorly reasoned one page report, you probably would've complained and got a more professional product with no more out of pocket expenses. But, for whatever reason, you chose not to go over anything until later when things weren't going so well. I have nothing against running your life in this way, but if you choose to, don't seek to blame others when things don't turn out so rosey.

I've made plenty of mistakes in life, but don't look to blame someone else for them.
- If you're knowledgeable in something and don't take the time to verify everything, then it's your fault, suck it up and deal!
- If you're not knowledgeable in something, directly hire someone who is knowledgeable to represent your interests. If you choose not to, you chose to walk in blind, it's your fault, suck it up and deal!
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
A number of people are mentioning that they never got an appraisal that they paid for. However, this is not the banks fault, but rather the homeowner/purchaser's fault. If you ask for a copy BEFORE the closing/funding of the loan, you'll get it fast.
G;
1.Many folks are complaining because they are not being given what they have paid for.
2. It may NOT be the purchasors fault, I was an informed buyer and just wanted to see what my competition in my own field produced!
3. I did.

If you'd requested a copy of the appraisal BEFORE closing/funding of the loan, I'm sure that the banker would have found it pretty darn quick.
4. I did, he didn't.

And if you saw that it was a poorly reasoned one page report, you probably would've complained and got a more professional product with no more out of pocket expenses.
I did he didn't again


But, for whatever reason, you chose not to go over anything until later when things weren't going so well.
Ummm IF it sounded like I was whining, please clear your ears, I made an informed decision based on my own research, and like many others got caught in a market timeing issue which made some others lose thier everything (inclusive of their credit) where as I simply didn't MAKE any money. I reapproached the issue as soon as the guy who controlled the money was no longer in control of MY money. (construction disbursements)


I have nothing against running your life in this way, but if you choose to, don't seek to blame others when things don't turn out so rosey.
Too freaking magnanimous of you!
The only person/entity I am blaming is the bank/officer who permitted an appraiser (and I think they were relatives) for overcharging for shoddy work poorly performed which I as the borrower was not permitted to see until I put the screws to the bank after they could no longer hurt me personally!!!

The point I was making is that if I as a highly knowlegable individual involved in the profession could not pry an appropriate report out of this financial institution it is QUITE possible that other folks who are less knowlegable may be in the same boat, both there and elsewhere. and given the history as reported by this individual it **MAY** be the case that she has a justifiable concern and should pursue it. IF the only manner in which she can pursue it is to shine some public light into some dark corners, I think she should be encouraged to do so.


- If you're not knowledgeable in something, directly hire someone who is knowledgeable to represent your interests. If you choose not to, you chose to walk in blind, it's your fault, suck it up and deal!
This gal apparently THOUGHT that she WAS, which is the cause of her plaint. For petes sake would you quit assuming that everyone in the world save yourself is a whiner or idiot? I for one am seldom accused of being either, and you have manged to tag me with both! :evil:
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
Lee Ann,

My fault for assuming that people would understand without spelling everything out. I should have wrote "If you ask for a copy BEFORE the closing/funding of the loan, you'll get it fast. AND IF YOU DON'T.....STOP THE WHOLE PROCESS UNTIL YOU DO GET A COPY!" I guess I just figured that the latter sentence was a given, again my fault for assuming. :oops:

You replied "I did" concerning asking for an appraisal, but never got a copy. So what happened? I'm guessing the banker didn't get you a copy, and you went ahead with the closing/funding anyways, right? If so, it was your choice, right?

The loan officers / brokers etc. don't usually get their money until the loan is closed/funded. Up until that time, the borrower is in the power position, whether they know it or not. (unless the borrower has credit problems or other issues that make them less than attractive to financing, or don't want to have to start the process all over again with a new financial institution)


graindart wrote:

- If you're not knowledgeable in something, directly hire someone who is knowledgeable to represent your interests. If you choose not to, you chose to walk in blind, it's your fault, suck it up and deal!

Lee Ann wrote:

This gal apparently THOUGHT that she WAS, which is the cause of her plaint. For petes sake would you quit assuming that everyone in the world save yourself is a whiner or idiot? I for one am seldom accused of being either, and you have manged to tag me with both!

I must be missing something......are you saying you think that the gal apparently THOUGHT that she WAS directly hiring someone who is knowledgeable to represent her interests? If so, who did she DIRECTLY hire? From her message it doesn't sound like she directly hired anyone. The loan officer was probably a bank employee with the bank and his/her own interests as first priority. You might try to make the argument that the bank hired appraiser was an independent party and the report was relied upon by the borrower. However, the appraisal report apprarently wasn't reviewed by neverwilllearn, so how could she have relied upon it?

On a more personal note, please don't put words into my mouth. I never accused or assumed that you or everyone in the world save myself is a whiner or idiot. I have been and will continue to be both at times. Quite on the contrary, I think you're a very intelligent and well spoken lady. However, I do think that you're missing my point, so here it is: I don't expect people to be knowledgeable in everything, I don't expect people to not make mistakes; however, I do expect people to take responsibilty for their own actions.

One more personal note for anyone reading this, it's just a combination of words and letters, if you don't find enjoyment out of reading and replying, stop. If it frustrates you to the point where it affects your real life and those around you, just quit reading and replying. Real life is so much more important. (and frustrating at times :) )
 
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