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FHA Septic System Distance/public Water

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glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Tell the lender to get a septic tank cert . I have installed quite a few tanks over the years and almost every city and county have different regulations. Also you would not even know where the tank is located because over the years it may have been moved. ( one filled up and another dropped in another location) Don't even try to play septic expert there is to much liability. A licensed contractor will go out measure the distance , verify the system is working and give the lender a clearance. The FHA DE underwriter places the septic certification in her file and it's done.
 

Zero

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Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
FHA--FAQs 1/24/2013, p. 6

Utilities – Well and Septic

001 Is the appraiser still required to report well, septic and property line distances on an addendum to the URAR or is this only required when problems are noted? How is the lender to determine if these distance requirements are met if the appraiser is not required to identify?

The appraiser is not required to sketch the distances between the well and septic, however, he or she should be mindful of FHA's minimum distance requirements between private wells and sources of pollution (septic systems) in the performance of FHA appraisals; and, if discernible, comment on them. Prudent appraisal practice would have the appraiser requesting a copy of a survey from the homeowner, if available. If the appraisal notes a distance issue, it could be potential for contamination. If the appraisal notes any adverse site conditions, that may warrant further inspections or due diligence. In either case, it is the lender's decision as to whether a qualified third party should map the distances and/or require testing for compliance with local or state requirements, or, in their absence, FHA requirements. Appraisers are expected to have geographic competency, which would include familiarity with local or customary inspection requirements. Local or customary requirements should be noted within the appropriate area of the appraisal report. However, the decision to require a test, certification or inspection, other than what is automatically required as noted in ML 2005-48, is made by the lender and FHA requires the lender to be familiar with the market areas in which they lend
 

Zero

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Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
from the new 4000.1 to take effect in September


Requirements for the location of wells for FHA-insured Properties are located in 24 CFR § 200.926d (f) (3).



The following tables provide the minimum distance required between wells and sources of pollution for Existing Construction: Individual Water Supply System for Minimum Property Requirements for Existing Construction*



1


Property line/10 feet



2


Septic tank/50 feet



3


Drain field/100 feet



4


Septic tank drain field reduced to 75 feet if allowed by local authority



5


If the subject Property line is adjacent to residential Property then local well distance requirements prevail. If the subject Property is adjacent to non-residential Property or roadway, there needs to be a separation distance of at least 10 feet from the property line.



* distance requirements of local authority prevail if greater than stated above


Our local laws forbid septic systems within 50' of property lines without approval, agreement, or if grandfathered.

This is in the underwriting section, which is a lender function. I do not see in the appraisal section where the appraiser is responsible for determining this.
 

CANative

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Jun 18, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Doggoneit! Why cannot real estate appraisers around this country READ THE DARN PRE-PRINTED LANGUAGE ON THE APPRAISAL FORMS THEY SIGN AND USE EVERYDAY OF THEIR STINKING LIVES? Exactly how many times do they need to be told that the Fannie 2005 version of the 1004 prohibits the appraiser from contravening the Scope of Work? More, we do not get to just toss in EAs and HCs without communication with our clients regarding assignment conditions. That EA cannot be stuck under the utilities section, it would demand the use of Check Box 4 in the reconciliation of the report. And then what alteration or repair are you asking for? It's great your asking questions, it is terrible you still think you can stick EAs or HCs anywhere inside a report using the current 1004 and send it off. Yes, you need to review that contract, and yes, this probably kills the loan as Fannie no likey (misspell on purpose) drain field not on subject property.
Why do you always have to be such a pompous nimrod?

For one thing this is an FHA scenario and FHA has different protocols than Fannie Mae. For another this could be a situation for an EA, the EA that the well, septic and drain fields are at appropriate distances. The inspection requirement would be for a survey or statement from a professional regarding the locations. The other option would be to stop the assignment and have the lender provide whatever documentation is necessary for the appraiser to determine the distances.

Handbook 4000.1, page 451.

The Appraiser must also be familiar with the minimum distance requirements between private wells and sources of pollution and, if discernible, comment onthem. The Appraiser is not required to sketch or note distances between the well,property lines, septic tanks, drain fields, or building Structures but may provide estimated distances where they are comfortable doing so.


When available, theAppraiser should obtain from the homeowner or Mortgagee a copy of a survey orother documents attesting to the separation distances between the well and septicsystem or other sources of pollution.
 

Zero

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Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
This thread proves, once again, that misinformed APPRAISERS, are often the ones responsible for "scope creep." You know, those so-called requirements about carbon monoxide detectors, double strapped water heaters and other mythical creatures of the appraisal report. I heard all of these myths FIRST from appraisers and the appraisal legends carry on to this day. I have talked lenders off the ledge on many of these ridiculous notions. They are grateful for de-cluttering the revision queue of nonsense.
 

Terrel L. Shields

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Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
au contraire. The new 4000.1 DOES impose upon the appraiser a responsibility to identify slush pits, oil and gas wells, abandoned wells, etc. as well as anything within ¼ mile that may be a hazard - including dry cleaning establishments and junk yards. They do say that the appraiser, once they discover same, must send it back to the lender. The lender deals with it. So what do think? The lender would prefer to get a more myopic appraiser, right? We had one around here that they called "One-eyed Larry"... good old Larry. He could ignore anything and make up comps if necessary. He kicked the bucket though, just as a ton of complaints was hitting the state. Is that your solution? Ignore it? The Sgt. Schultz defense?
 

CANative

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
That stuff has always been there. Perhaps they are being a little more specific but it's stuff that a conscientious appraiser would be on the look out for.
 

CertApp

Freshman Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Wisconsin
Geez...Fellas. FHA wants to know the distance between contamination and fresh water sources and of course the lot line. Also, the correct distance is 10 ft to property lines and 100ft between contamination sources and water sources, NOT 50ft. Now it can be as minimum as 75ft BUT never any less, if any only if local jurisdiction allows. Keep in mind even if local jurisdiction says it can be 50ft, this will not meet minimum requirements as no matter what, FHA will not permit anything less than 75ft even if local jurisdiction does.
 

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
, if any only if local jurisdiction allows. Keep in mind even if local jurisdiction says it can be 50ft, this will not meet minimum requirements as no matter what, FHA will not permit anything less than 75ft even if local jurisdiction does.
Which meets an ordinary system with 100' laterals 10' apart (say 3 laterals means the lot would be 20' +150' wide minimum) and 175' long PLUS the house tank, front yard etc. suggesting that the minimum LOT size for an FHA with septic would be no less than one acre or so...and the septic would have be ben centered in a lot that is a minimum of 175' wide.

And what about innovative systems that require less space? No go? FHA's idee fixe on such issues is the real problem. Common sense is not permitted by federal agencies. You get fired for that.
 

CertApp

Freshman Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Wisconsin
Which meets an ordinary system with 100' laterals 10' apart (say 3 laterals means the lot would be 20' +150' wide minimum) and 175' long PLUS the house tank, front yard etc. suggesting that the minimum LOT size for an FHA with septic would be no less than one acre or so...and the septic would have be ben centered in a lot that is a minimum of 175' wide.

And what about innovative systems that require less space? No go? FHA's idee fixe on such issues is the real problem. Common sense is not permitted by federal agencies. You get fired for that.
I'm not sure what your question is?
 
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