• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Get Real

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pdexter

Thread Starter
Sophomore Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Oregon
OK.... Show me one time... ONE TIME that anything was done without a big Gubment cashflow injection. I wanna be a libertarian gun-loving douche. Do it. Put the bible down long enough to tell me what is so wrong with Gubmenets controlling economies.
 
Last edited:

AL LLANOS

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
California
OK.... Show me one time... ONE TIME that anything was done without a big Gubment cashflow injection. I wanna be a libertarian gun-loving douche. Do it. Put the bible down long enough to tell me what is so wrong with Gubmenets controlling economies.

Seems to me the libertarian ideology is to keep govt out of the private sector, you're suggesting the opposite.:new_smile-l:
 

nauthead

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Hugo Chavez is a prime example of too much government control. Castro also comes to mind. Pdexter, are you sure you want to worship leaders like that?
 

Marcia Langley

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Missouri
Pdexter,

The problem is with extremes. Extremes always lead to problems.

Take any fundamental function in a society (subsistence, safety, commerce, religion, innovation, etc) and imagine how each function might evolve in extreme circumstances.

Look at the two extremes of anarchy and dictatorship and the sliding scale of possible mid-points between the two.

Think of it as a scale:

Anarchy---------------midpoint------------------Dictatorship


Look at religion. That function of society would not please the majority of the citizens (in a diverse society especially) unless it functioned toward the left of center (toward anarchy) but not all the way to anarchy because most citizens want some basic laws to trump religion (like laws against murder, for example). But most people don't want religion to be dictated to them by the government, either.

Most people think that if there is going to be just a slight imbalance it should err toward the freer end when it comes to religion.

Now plunk commerce down in that scale. Zero government control (no laws whatsoever; anarchy) is not what the majority wants. Most people want laws regarding commerce especially in areas like fraud, public safety, etc. But no one wants government to dictate commerce, either.

The thing is that in a dictatorship the government always gets to choose who wins and how much they win. Whether it's basic food, religion, protection from murder, or wealth.

=========

The problem with public discourse today is that even the majority who want a reasonable balance somewhere in the middle are polarized by wedge issues.

On a scale of 1-100 with 50 being perfect center, two people at 49 and 51 demonize each other almost as strongly as two people at 2 and 99.

So back to your question about the economy and government ...

The taxpayer purchase of ownership in selected corporations is in fact a major shift to the right on my scale, toward dictatorship. It really is a big deal because it is an actual major shift from the status quo.

Certain segments of our status quo economy (investment banking, in particular) had been moving steadily over the last few decades toward the anarchy side. Probably too far and needed to come back into balance. The fear now is that the "correction" may "overbalance" too far towards dictatorship. That fear is not unfounded.

On the other hand, some might say that when status quo government individuals decide to overlook abuses like fraud for selected corporations, (like investment banks) and the financial systems they depend on (like lenders) that may amount to the dreaded dictatorship, too.

If anarchy is encouraged for government-chosen segments of commerce but denied to other segments of commerce, that amounts to a sort of dictator activity that grants patronage to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

Which is also what the bailout does. Frankly, personally, I don't see this a change in the attitude of government so much as a continuation of the existing attitude of government.

The economic meltdown just made it more obvious and of immediate urgency to the previously apathetic majority.
 
Joined
May 2, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Ohio
OK.... Show me one time... ONE TIME that anything was done without a big Gubment cashflow injection. I wanna be a libertarian gun-loving douche. Do it. Put the bible down long enough to tell me what is so wrong with Gubmenets controlling economies.


SRQCUB nails it, but for a bit more explaination..........from a Samuel Colt quote of circa 1837: "To be a clerk or an office holder under the pay and patronage of Government, is to stagnate ambition & I hope by hevins I would rather be captain of a canal bote than have the biggest office in the gift of the Government, you had better blow out your brains at once and manure an honest man's ground with your carcas than hang your ambition on so low a peg...Samuel Colt"

Government control=Handout. As soon as you rely on others to take care of you, there is no longer any incentive to better yourself or to take an interest in what goes on around you. Example, you work for a living and make zzz dollars per year. You have a budget that you have to live within and although you may want six kids, you realize you can only afford two. Now the Gov. takes over and gives you basic housing, food, clothing etc. You can have as many children as you want, regardless of the results of a population of hundreds of millions becoming a population of billions.......just ask the Chinese how this is working out (and yes they are allowing for private enterprise but it's too little, too late for them).

When you rely on others for your care (when you are otherwise able to care for yourself), you essentially become worthless and expendable (I'm not talking about temporary emergency assistance from Uncle Sugar). What then is your purpose in life, just to sit and collect a government handout. Ambition and creativity are stifled. Will Detroit and Wall Street continue to do anything differently once they get their handout, or, will it be business as usual. Thirty years ago cars were being made that got over 60mpg. If one or two of the big three go under you can bet the surviving company(ies) will get the message that the consumer needs inexpensive high mileage cars. With a bailout, Detroit can continue to produce low mileage, over priced crap. One of the big reasons communism fails is that it stifles ambition. Soviet era worker productivity was dismal......minimum work for minimum wage.

Pdexter, when governments control economies, they control the people. Many Americans will go through their entire life thinking communism/socialism is just fine, but to those who have actually lived under such a system for any length of time will have a different opinion, as will some Americans who better understand why government control/handouts are bad. People in this country have been counting on social security and medicaid for years. When the Government finally runs out of money, what will happen to those who have been living on a handout versus those who have been self sufficient?
 
Last edited:

Workbox

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
Many immigrants come here for less control of government. To have the ability to become productive and self sufficient. What I notice, if the first generation does not remember or has it instilled from their parents the importance of self reliability. You will get a bunch of spoiled brats that will be easily herded. You see that now, and I have seen it.

There is a need and a balance for government, but what is happening is very artificial and that scares the Heck out of me and others, while others keep repeating "Think Positive" and continue like it all will be OK. The Government Knows very well, that they have a bunch of Fat Lazy Citizens and the minute you take away their Broadband and Cable, it will be Anarchy.
 

AnonApprsr

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Massachusetts
Hey! I may be fat, and I may be physically lazy but...but... aww forget it, I'm going to get some food.
 

Karl

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Arizona
WOW!! I am so glad that I'm old, cause the originator of this thread has apprantly never been outside this country. & apprantly never talked to anyone from many various other countries that ESCAPED to get here.

Says he wants to have a gun!!! BUT wants more government control. This guy/gal has to be, just pulling our leg!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Top

AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks