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GFI outlet in kitchen?

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Thomas J Kirchmeyer

Thread Starter
Sophomore Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New York
Is it a HUD FHA guideline that a kitchen must have a GFI outlet? I cannot find that in the HUD handbook but I am reviewing an appraisal that an appraiser is making the report subject to installing one. No other repairs were noted.
 

Robert Dunkle

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oklahoma
It would come under "Health and Safety Issures". If a receptacle is within reaching distance of a water source, it should be GFI receptacle. If they are not within reaching distance of a water source, I don't believe it is required in the 4150.
 

Thomas Fiehler

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Ohio
They are not required unless noted by Robert. It must be within reaching distance or it's not a safety feature. It might be a local factor but HUD does not enforce local building standards.
 
H

Hall McClenahan

Guest
it should be GFI receptacle.

Is it mandatory? Health and safety issues are confusing at times and as recent FHA directives demonstrate are never concrete. Take the hand rail requirement change for example. It used to be if there were three steps there must be a rail in place, now that is not the case. I was corrected on that one!

Homes have been built and insured by FHA long before we had the sense to install Ground Fault Interruption at common grounding points and well before building codes began requiring them. If it were not for human intervention, a home would not be in danger by the use of fault point outlets and could stand the entire economical life without an issue.

FHA has directives and guidelines. Directives are easy, guidelines are the problems and create the issues like the original poster's question to come up. This brings up my question.

For my experienced peers and internet experts what should the "basic test" be to determine if an issue is actually related to health and safety of an improvement? Generally three or four questions cover the entire spectrum of possibilities. I look forward to your responses.
 

CANative

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
California
The appraiser should personally perform a test to see if there is a hazard. Plug in an old toaster while washing one hand, for example. Put a roller skate or banana peal on different steps in a run and see which step is needed to require a trip to the emergency room might be another example.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
The appraiser should personally perform a test to see if there is a hazard. Plug in an old toaster while washing one hand, for example. Put a roller skate or banana peal on different steps in a run and see which step is needed to require a trip to the emergency room might be another example.
:rof: :rof: :rof:
Thank you so much! I needed that.
 

Kevin A. Spellman

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Massachusetts
GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters can also be found in the electric service panel. The wall mounted units typically have a defective rate of 25% as they are not tested monthly as required. The GFC I in the service panel are more reliable. They are an inconvenience to go to the panel to reset.
 

William K

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Illinois
No, GFI's are not a HUD requirement. A ground outlet ( 3 prong) was a HUD requirement.
GFI's are requirements for most new construction and many local municipalities require them to be installed when properties transfer.
Many appraiser's have required these as they do fall under the "sound ,safe, sanitary" issue however when I have contacted HUD in the past via email and asked for clarification they have stated it is not HUD policy it is local building issue.
You can email your HUD office and they will respond to you so you can have something in your file (as I would recommend on issues).
HUD had a past standard in some locals that required them and in other locals they had standards that all that was needed was a 3 prong outlet.

Check with the appropriate HUD office for where the property is located, and "get it in writing" is the best moto.
In my locale years ago many appraisers were requiring this repair and it was costing sellers a couple hundred dollars to have them installed in rooms with running water. I read the handbook and knew it did not say GFI's but did say GROUND OUTLETS ( 3 Prong) I contacted HUD and they emailed me with the response it was not a HUD requirement. After I did not call for it to be installed a realtor asked and I stated it was not a HUD requirement. The realtor said "all the other appraisers were calling for them" and I stated thats because they didn't read the handbook at the time. The lender I was doing FHA appraisals for at the time ended up adding over 8 additional realtors who were sending them business as a result. ( They still thank me for it to this day).
 

Mr Rex

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
No, GFI's are not a HUD requirement. A ground outlet ( 3 prong) was a HUD requirement.
GFI's are requirements for most new construction and many local municipalities require them to be installed when properties transfer.
Many appraiser's have required these as they do fall under the "sound ,safe, sanitary" issue however when I have contacted HUD in the past via email and asked for clarification they have stated it is not HUD policy it is local building issue.
You can email your HUD office and they will respond to you so you can have something in your file (as I would recommend on issues).
HUD had a past standard in some locals that required them and in other locals they had standards that all that was needed was a 3 prong outlet.

Check with the appropriate HUD office for where the property is located, and "get it in writing" is the best moto.
In my locale years ago many appraisers were requiring this repair and it was costing sellers a couple hundred dollars to have them installed in rooms with running water. I read the handbook and knew it did not say GFI's but did say GROUND OUTLETS ( 3 Prong) I contacted HUD and they emailed me with the response it was not a HUD requirement. After I did not call for it to be installed a realtor asked and I stated it was not a HUD requirement. The realtor said "all the other appraisers were calling for them" and I stated thats because they didn't read the handbook at the time. The lender I was doing FHA appraisals for at the time ended up adding over 8 additional realtors who were sending them business as a result. ( They still thank me for it to this day).

Don't think grounded outlets are required by FHA either. Please post the link if you have it.
 
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