• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Help Addressing Countrywide Review

Status
Not open for further replies.

Leigh Lindsay

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
California
The subject is 1,700 sf dwelling on 10 acres with pasture, cross-fencing an a barn (4 horses). The southern 1.5 acres is planted with grapevines. It is located in low density neighborhood with acreage properties typical. I have responded to 3 separate requests regarding commercial agricultural uses. Now, they want me to state exactly, "THE SUBJECT IS NOT BEING USED FOR NON RESIDENTIAL USE."
Well, I stated previously:
"The subject property is a single family residence with allowable non commercial agricultural uses."
They didn't like it, so I responded again:
"The subject property's highest and best use is residential. The majority of the subject's 10 acres is pasture area, with a single family residence and surrounding yard. Approximately 1.5 acres is planted with grapevines. Per county zoning, animal keeping and vineyards are permitted uses within the subject's RE zoning classification."

Now what? It's definitely not a commercial operation in my opinion, but I don't know for sure - no tasting room, and didn't see any grape stomping or machinery indicating major wine production.
What is CW looking for? I want to tell them to bite my ***! The "non-residential" use is a secondary use, but I can't state there are NO non-residential uses...
 

lizhorvath

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
Call the owner first, and make sure they're not making any money on those grapes.

How about a hobby garden? Are they just letting the grapes rot or are they picking and using them? I'd mention that while there is a portion of the property planted as a vineyard, the owners utilize it as a Hobby Garden.
 

PropertyEconomics

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Mexico
Leigh ... I do not think you can comply with their request to state that the property is not being used for any use other than residential. The agricultural uses present, ie barn, horses, and vineyard is absolutely not residential use.
If I were you I think I would ask to speak directly to the underwriter and iron this situation out with a phone call.
You simply cannot say that which is not true. The means with which you have addressed this issue is correct and the uses present on the property are allowable per zoning. At some point, and I know you may lose a client over this, but the facts are simply the facts. There are no commercial agricultural uses present on the subject property and its use as an agricultural / residential property is in conformity with current zoning ordinances.

There are no commercially "legal" agricultrual uses which are viable to my knowledge on 10 acres, with perhaps the exception of growing tobacco, but I will leave that to our friends in states where tobacco farms are and they can answer that question. Even if the grapes were sold, does not make the vineyard a commercially viable vineyard. No more than growing vegtables in a garden and taking them to the farmers market every Saturday morning for sale.

Simply do not say that which is not true and do not be goaded into doing the same. I believe you could look at Fannie regulations and find these uses are entirely acceptable to them and perhaps quote that section of the Fannie regs to your underwriter.

Good luck.
 

Mike Kennedy

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New York
The subject property is a single family residence with allowable non commercial agricultural uses under current Zoning. Analysis of the local market indicated many Residential properties with larger lots indicating the current Residential Use of the Subjects' Lot is typical. As of the Effective Date of Appraisal, the majority of the subject's 10 acres is pasture area, with a single family residence and surrounding yard. Approximately 1.5 acres is planted with grapevines. Per county zoning, animal keeping and vineyards are permitted uses within the subject's RE zoning classification. As of the Effective Date, no farm animals or winery machinery, outbuildings, or commercial signage whichwould indicate possible commercial use above and beyond than owners private wine production hobby, which is an incidental use, were evident. In the Appraisers' opinion, no evidence which would indicate commercial or agricultural use was readily apparent nor reported by the owner. **

See Fannie Rural Property Appraisal Guidelines for additional citation { COPY N PASTE HERE}.

( ** CONFIRM THIS PRIOR TO SENDING rebuttal)
 

PropertyEconomics

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Mexico
The subject property is a single family residence with allowable non commercial agricultural uses under current Zoning. Analysis of the local market indicated many Residential properties with larger lots indicating the current Residential Use of the Subjects' Lot is typical. As of the Effective Date of Appraisal, the majority of the subject's 10 acres is pasture area, with a single family residence and surrounding yard. Approximately 1.5 acres is planted with grapevines. Per county zoning, animal keeping and vineyards are permitted uses within the subject's RE zoning classification. As of the Effective Date, no farm animals or winery machinery, outbuildings, or commercial signage whichwould indicate possible commercial use above and beyond than owners private wine production hobby, which is an incidental use, were evident. In the Appraisers' opinion, no evidence which would indicate commercial or agricultural use was readily apparent nor reported by the owner. **

See Fannie Rural Property Appraisal Guidelines for additional citation { COPY N PASTE HERE}.

( ** CONFIRM THIS PRIOR TO SENDING rebuttal)


Mike .. the barn, horses, and vineyard would indicate agricultural use. I think you would be fine if you took out the OR ... because agricultural uses are absolutely present.
 

Mike Kennedy

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New York
P.E. it's covered >>>>>

https://www.efanniemae.com/lc/ou/pdf/app_rural_props.pdf PAGES 14-18 AND 22-23 (INSERT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE PG 23 IN SPACE ABOVE}


* didnt have the link handy when doing prior post.


Now........ IF they are requiring the OP to delete all mention of the agricultural use .(which is what it sounds like)

........HELL NO. "it is what it is". they CAN sell the loan "as-is".

IMO.
 
Last edited:

StephHigdem

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Idaho
Main Entry: ag·ri·cul·ture
Pronunciation: \ˈa-gri-ˌkəl-chər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin agricultura, from ager field + cultura cultivation — more at acre, culture
Date: 15th century
: the science, art, or practice of cultivating the soil, producing crops, and raising livestock and in varying degrees the preparation and marketing of the resulting products


Per Merriam-Webster Seems to me the key words there are "AND MARKETING OF THE RESULTING PRODUCTS".
 

Mztk1

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
You can grow your own grapes, you can sell them. You can have a barn to house four horses. The former, though non-residential in nature, does not take away from the residential nature of the property; the latter is likely common for residential houses in rural markets (at least it is in my rural markets) and therefore is acceptable.

If it were in my rural areas, where four horse barn/stables are common and a lot of people have fruit trees growing and selling them at the front end of their driveway, I'd simply state the barn is typical for the market and the agricultural use, though non-residential, does not detract from the residential nature of the subject property. Non-residential uses were not considered in the opinion of value.
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
Which goes back to my comment in the Additional Comments on Page 3 of the URAR included in every report that clearly states:

* No consideration is given in the report for the contributory value of any of the following: personal property, mineral rights, standing timber or agricultural crops, if any.

Rather than get into the details of 1.5 acres in Pinot Grigio grapes, just say some grape vines if you have to say anything. Did you give any value to them? I would not since I consider grape vines to be a crop whenever I encounter them. As noted above, no part of the appraised value includes any value of crops.

As to calling it a Commercial Usage, if you did not determine at the time of inspection that this was a commercial operation, it is what you determined for purposes of the appraisal.

Hint: The lender will make the loan but it will be at a higher rate if they can get you to call it a commercial operation and they will make more money. Don't do it unless you believe it is so based on your inspection and data collection.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Top

AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks