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Homeowners Associations

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Jerry Ingmire

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
I have been trying to gather some data on the effects of homeowners associations and the typical market buyer. A number of years ago we saw many homeowners associations with numerous covenants and restrictions, now these associations are not as effective as they once were. The idea behind covenants and restrictions were to maintain and improve property values, but as homes become older and the cost to maintain these restrictions and covenants become economically restrictive is there a move to not purchase homes in these assn. areas?
In my area a particular group representing a particular homeowners assn. came to me and complained that property values were not as high as in the next phase. As an appraiser I can find many reasons for this as the homes in the next phase are newer, it is a gated community and numerous other factors that have to be considered. Homes in this particualr subdivision are in the $125k-$190k, covenants are very restrictive, color, type and even the particualar maker of roofing materials, no sheds, swing sets, travel trailers, boats and other restrictive covenants govern many of the items throughout this assn. This assn. does have a pool which is in fair condition and a park area surrounding the pool, but other than that no other added amenities.
Any comments, suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Perplexed in Washington
 

Lee in L.A.

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
but as homes become older and the cost to maintain these restrictions and covenants become economically restrictive is there a move to not purchase homes in these assn. areas?
I'm thinking it depends on the HOA and how well they maintain things, and the same for the homeowners. One good earthquake and it's value could be toast. But rebuild the project like new, and it's... like new. OK, apart from catastrophy, they're going to get maintenance and updates over the years right? So maybe effective age matters more? Or could just be that happens more here than some other places since there's little open land to build new on in L.A.

covenants are very restrictive, color, type and even the particualar maker of roofing materials, no sheds, swing sets, travel trailers, boats and other restrictive covenants govern many of the items throughout this assn.
That's why I don't want to ever live in a place with an HOA. Just what I need, another level of gubmint. :x :!:
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Yep, them "Restrictions & Covenants" can create havoc - the problem for value growth is to get those same items reversed, so as to be not so restrictive. The originator followed someone elses's lead and drafted their own Rules, the problem is, as time progress's some things need to change.

When Condominium's orginated they had similar restrictions; some allowed for no children; or you had to be over 55 to get into the community. Eventually some of these communities broke rank and opened up other ideas within the communities, many today are not as restrictive as they once were.

The item to remember is, in these situations, the majority RULES; if they can't get enough votes, they will not be able to diversify and therefore, the restricted values will only gain in minimum stride and not be able to fully develop.

The "market" will probably react favorably, as it will now become competitive with those communities that allow for the less restrictive approaches to home ownership, in whatever form it may be attainable. Everyone needs a place to live, it basically comes down to what can you afford to spend - for shelter :?:

Good Hunting
8)
 

Lee in L.A.

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Everyone needs a place to live, it basically comes down to what can you afford to spend - for shelter
Hopefully more $ than for a cardboard condo, or a homemade bungalow, eh Trotta :!: 8)
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Lee

ADVANTAGE
"cardboard condo"; no Common Fees; No Pool Maintenence; No continual Neighbors - thats the best part. These can be done on a 2055 or mobile home format your choice, but most Lenders will only pay $75. :lol: :lol:

Your next home will only be suitable to the income you can sustain 8O


8)
 

Paulette in Texas

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
We built 32 years ago in close-in solid appreciating neighborhood. We have updated several times. About 2 weeks ago we found we had substantial damage to our garage and quarters plus wanted additional concrete work for our RV and rear patio area. So we have sucked it up to pay for deferred maintenance of something that is basically storage as we are in area which forbids renting. Only family or servants may use the quarters. I am so mad I am spitting #@#$%^@#. Seems our latest rent-a-cop deputy gave us a ticket for having our RV 5th wheel on the street the last week while the repairs were being done and new concrete work completed AND CURED before we put it back at the rear of property. I just fired off e-mail to our local civic club and called the local constables office and spoke with nice young man about the brain-dead "woman" who has the job of hired for the night security in our neighborhood. This woman is a ##!%^@. We haven't had any tickets nor anything else since we were teenagers and we are now 60+-. We have been here for 32 years and we now have to put up with this crap. Thanks, but NO THANKS. Last time, they ticketed a visitor for "running" stop sign because it wasn't "her" idea of complete stop AT THE RIGHT place. When hell freezes over will I ever donate money to this civic club nor for the added security. As far as I'm concerned...everybody should have 2 Rotts and a Shih tzus and to hell with paid security. Nobody short of a death wish is coming in here and we don't give tickets. We just pay our taxes, maintain our property and make good neighbors. Of course, that's not what tickets are all about...need the money for our bureaucrats to spend more. Paulette in Tx
Rotts Rule and Shih Tzus fine too.
go w...
 

Caterina Platt

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
Sounds good on paper.....results are often a faceless coward's way of not knocking on your neighbor's door to handle a small issue. I have been a part of 2 HOAs. The condo in Denver, obvious need for the HOA and they did a good job. In my current HOA, it's a ridiculous nightmare. This association was formed by the developer, for the developer. She currently uses it merely to defray her costs of maintaining the landscaped medians- our improvements which also happen to be deeded to the county. These are not even common areas. We get to foot the bill for the landscaped backdrop for her numerous ReMax flags. Couldn't even put in a single American flag or state flag mind you. The remainder of the funds goes towards sending out harrassing letters to 'Lowlifes' with storage sheds or who happen to leave their garage door open, or !gasp! -have a clothesline!!!

96 pages of restrictive covenants, HOA to boot, and alas, people still let their landscaping die and park 6 cars in front of a 1200 SF 3/2. Your association is only as strong as the lawyers behind it, which has a direct relationship with the amount of fees charged. Most of the $$ is wasted on nonsensical stuff like Paulette's 'flagrant violation'. I'd be perfectly happy with reasonable restrictive covenants and a non-mandatory, no assessment neighborhood association. When it comes down to it, I would bet that only 10% of the 'issues' are real bonafide problems that would fall under zoning violations anyway.

Bottom line, a typical 'knowledgeable buyer' probably shys away from strict associations.
 

Paulette in Texas

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
I wish it were true that knowledgeable buyers looked for reasonable covenants in their HOA or civic clubs. Unfortunately, in Houston, not happening. The developers set these Gestapo things up, and then the wantabees jump right in with their friendly lawyers to make sure that they have a living sucked right out of the HOA HO. They don't really care about property maintenance nor values. They care about maintaining their own turf and their own power base. Good luck, and best wishes.

My latest brain storm after I complained to the local constables office and the civic club to follow. Remember, civic clubs can't MAKE you do anything thing that is not in the deed restrictions here in Houston. As opposed to the terrors of the HOA here in Houston. We are lucky to be in civic club.

As of Monday I am ordering a new banner. I figure about 30 ft wide and 3 ft tall yellow on red.

"Welcome" Gestapo Rent-a-cop...Thank you SPP Civic Club, Paulette Partin

And I plan on posting it on the front of our 2 story property. Nothing in our restrictions prevents it. I think it will be better than the last laugh.
 

Caterina Platt

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
I love it Paulette! Wanna come help me thumb my nose at our developer? Would be a hoot! This woman is the epitomy of the real estate grinch. As we speak, my daughter is playing at the home of our HOA Pres. Talking with his wife earlier. Guess who's $600 behind in HOA fees? You got it, Ms. Witch Developer with her lofty covenants and restrictions. What a scam! She is actually living by the good graces of her lenders. Drives the best, lives in a trophy to herself, and owes everyone!

Seems your developer is remiss in the construction of proper covenants. Big signs should be a no no. :lol: I'm currently studying for my Broker's designation (RE license). Still a lowly Salesperson on inactive status. My biggest hurdle? Not the test, not the E & O, it's how do I lawfully display my required 2 1/2" minimum lettering 'Caterina Platt, Evergreen Appraisals & Realty, Qualifying Broker' without violating my stupid covenants? Got her figured out I think. Black letter stickers (no background sign) directly on my window behind my large rosebush. :twisted:

God willing, the remodel will be done in about a month. I will be busting a bottle of champagne over that "Evergreen Appraisals and Realty" sign in my very own front yard. We are ouuutaaa here folks. Off to less restricted, larger parcel, give me a horse, steer and a couple o' chickens land! (course that all hinges on a willing buyer 8) )
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
I HATE HOAs! I'm also hearing more and more people saying the same thing. Many PUDs here are getting rid of the HOA after the developer finishes building out and leaves. Never really thought about doing the research to determine if there is a value difference. Interesting.

I live in a PUD townhouse community. The neighborhood #1 'Gestapo wannabe' lives right next door. I cleaned up my yard about 6 weeks ago. I get a knock on the door about a week later telling me that a neighbor has complained as this is supposed to be a natural area. Leaving it 'natural' is not a mandatory part of the HOA docs. Anyway, this crazed, self-important HOA board member says she will give me 30 days to put leaves back down!!!! 8O :twisted: I'll test that in court if you want. All the fire departments are begging people to clean up all dead leaves due to draught and the fire hazard they present. Haven't heard another word about it and the 30 days are long past. Oh... the lawn service hired by the HOA to take care of the common areas have cleaned up all the leaves too. :roll:

Seems that most HOAs are run by the resident nut cases!
 
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