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How Accurate is Marshall's?

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Stephen J. Vertin MAI

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Illinois
I need help. I am working on a court case. My question involves the cost approach. I have actual cost to construct the subject as estimated by the builder. The builder has no relation to the owner any longer. He has already been paid. Therefore, motivations to lie are minimal. Furthermore, I have another area developer who concurred with the original builder. Finally, I have actual cost to build a similar home in a near-by city. All are saying about the same. I would like to further support cost via Marshall's but I only have the commercial book. Does anyone have a recent (within the last 6 months) residential cost estimator? If so, please post a ball park cost (per square foot). I would prefer a range.

The subject is a high quality, brick constructed, cider shingled, Tudor, mansion, in Green Bay, Wisconsin. The house has 14,672 square feet with about 60 angles. This place is top of the line and its build-out could only be described as exceptional. Tell me what Marshall's says. I will tell you what the market is indicating. It might be fun to see how close Marshall's comes. If you are shy and do not want to post call my 1-800 number which is 536-6963. I appreciate it.

Steve Vertin
 

EDWARD BERRY

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
M&S HAS proved very useful to use.

Typically in NW ARK, we "drop down one grade"

By using a new house, taking out the "easy costs"(DW,land value, site costs, etc) the remaining is "base cost".

Go to the quality pages for that figure.

SIMPLE IN ARKANSAS.ed
 

Dennis J. Black ASA IFAS

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Mr. Vertin,

I was certified by Marshall & Swift to teach their curriculum back when they certified instructors and have since had two training texts published by NAIFA, as well as speaking on this topic many times across the country, for each of the major organizations. In short, the improvement you are describing is really outside of the M & S products scope. I base this statement largely on the size of the structure.
 

Stephen J. Vertin MAI

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Illinois
Edward and M. Leggett:

I do not have the residential cost manual. All I have is the commercial properties manual which is of no use with this house. The swiftestimator link you have provided is for commercial properties only. I found that out this morning. They will not have residential figures up untill some time in August. I still need help. If anyone has a residential cost manual help out please. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Steve Vertin
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Steve,
I think something like what you have may be in M&S's "extraordinary properties" book. I looked at my M&S book, and it only goes up to 6,000 SF for Excellent quality.

Mine is current if you want it anyway, just e-mail your fax.
 

Stephen J. Vertin MAI

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Illinois
Once again the Appraisers Forum turns out to be an excellent resource. I received phone calls and faxes helping me with my project. The verdict is in and Dennis J. Black's post is right on the money. Marshall's is useless for this type project. That information is very important to know.

However, for those of us who are brave enough to defy Marshall's and compensate for their deficiencies be warned, the more you compensate the less accurate the manual becomes, i.e., size adjustment is about .95, since the subject is over twice as large as Marshall's greatest size of 6,000/sf I adjusted at .90 or .85. Making compensating adjustments like this makes sense but is not recommended because accuracy is greatly diminished.

The bottom line is even with adjustments Marshall's indicates cost at about $200.00 per square foot when in reality three market sources say $300.00 per square foot. You have no idea how much this has helped. Thank you to all who have posted, called and e-mailed. You make the forum a great resource.

Steve Vertin
 

Eminent Domain

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Just looking through the Marshall & Swifts "Exceptional Homes - A Cost Guide for High Value and Uniqe Residences 2000". It has base costs of these type homes ranging from $120 - $240 depending upon what class it is. From there you have to make square foot adjustments just as you do in the regular M&S residential book including locational adjustment. My feeling is that by using this manual you will probably be close to your market data. The Class VI also goes up to 14,000 SF.

I recently did a straw bale home and it even has a section on that and I did not know it until just now. Man, that could have been very useful. :oops:


BF
 

Verne Hebert

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Montana
Steve,

I am buried through tomorrow for a court case; but if you don't have what you need maybe I can help if you can wait til Wed.

M&S is the accepted cost guide for the appraisal profession, but there are about 7 or so others.

The data is accurate but is compiled from customary market data when available. I had a commercial construction company in the San Francisco Bay area in the latter 80's and early 90's. One of my competitors compiled some of his bid numbers for M&S.

Your property is not a generally constructed property.

As a result there are elements that even in the typical size range, are not accounted for. Example, your 60 angles. A common example is a very high density of windows incorporated into two walls (to maximize view amenity); this increase to framing, finish, glass cost, and the reengineering of the buildings sheer walls will always be well understated.

Verne Hebert
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Good information coming in on this thread. While attempting to help Steve I found out that the M&S Residential Cost Handbook just is not appropriate for this type of property. Way toooo many variables, book doesn't go over 6,000 SF without having to figure out some % differences as the SF went higher, but even that only went to 8,000 SF. Ended up very confusing and not anywhere near good enough to take to court.

I would like to hear about what was finally found, how it worked and how it compared to the builder's estimates.
 
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