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How much Detail in 1004?

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Terrel L. Shields

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
I'm curious.

Our poll suggested a lot of folks spend no more than 4 hours doing an interior inspected, fully researched report. Another thread suggests that they not only inspect the rooms but a full inspection of the appliances, the attic, and the crawlspace....Yet another reports that not only the walls, the room labels, but even doors, fixtures, etc. are included in their sketches.

Not to suggest that anyone is a liar or stretches the truth but really folks.

Assuming you are a really fast typist - ??

So my handy dandy ladder, and all such is loaded. My assignment is a house 5 miles away. I pull up the online tax card (3 min.) and make the appointment, zooming off at 60 mph (5 min.), screech to a halt, run into the house, check check check. Drag out the ladder or pull down the stair, then (heck with clean, dispense with the overalls) crawl under the house very fast too...flip every switch, etc etc...less than an hour???? Photo the house, measure the house, jump in the car. 60 mph again. 5 min...Now we can pick our comps... They are all within 1 mile of the subject. Jump in the car....zoom at 60 mph, screech to a halt...pix 1..zoom..pix 2...zoom pix 3.. [I mean you are not telling me that you KNOW all three comps you might choose BEFORE HAND are just right?? Did you just pre-comp your own report? :rof: ] Now, zoom back to the office, download the pix and crank it out.
My questions
You drew in all those tedious walls which you took time to measure in the house, right? You drew in all the shrubery too, I suppose..
Have you ever decided a comp wasn't that good and made a substitute?
When and how did you locate the floodmap designation, the zoning, the taxes? Scan and input them all. MLS and public records only? No verify with someone? Everyone is at their desk and takes your call? And everyone told you its arm's length and you need no further research or dump it for another??
Never have a call back? Make a mistake to correct? Are we figuring that in?
No mistakes. As a friend used to tell me...you bullxxit your buddies and I'll bullxxit mine, but let's not lie to each other. To routinely do such I suspect you have at least one helper who pastes the reports together...right?
 
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Elliott

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
Terrel said, They are all within 1 mile of the subject. Jump in the car....zoom at 60 mph, screech to a halt...pix 1..zoom..pix 2...zoom pix 3.. [I mean you are not telling me that you KNOW all three comps you might choose BEFORE HAND are just right??

Y'got a duplicate step there. When your in the field the first time,
take your photos of the comps. That saves plenty of time for
writing those detailed narratives UWs love.
 

The Dog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
So far this year as of today, I have put 2085 miles on my car. Assuming a 50 miles per hour average, that amounts to almost 48 hours driving time or at 18 days for work this months, around 2 1/3 hour a day driving just to do inspections, verifications and comps.

There is no way in my rural area that I can get almost any of the work out in under 6-8 hours. (minimum), usually more time than that. That is also why my fees have not decreased over the last 5 years, but have increased and why I surcharge for gas.
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Not much detail. They are not asking for much detail. The Summary Report form is more than enough for the typical lender for a typical home.

I scan all the stuff, drawn only the outside and label the rooms. Rarely even sketch the decks and porches...just label them. I have had perhaps 2 calls in 20 years about a sketch. I take 6 exterior pics minimum and 6 interior minimum. Don't scan in the flood map....unless it is in a flood zone or really close to a flood plain. I scan in a MLS report for the area , any current or previous MLS sheets on the subject, deed history and two tax cards.

If it gets more complex, it will be a little more work. It took me 10+ years to figure out that most lenders neither want, need or require much more than what a properly executed 1004 has to offer.

I can do one in four hours. Average is probably more like six. If I can do one a day I am content. If I get a few orders in and can set up files in the afternoon...I might get 2 reports done the next day.

There is no need to race...and no need to complicate the typical SFR appraisal.
 

Terrel L. Shields

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
When your in the field the first time,
take your photos of the comps.
So you tell the lender you cannot pre comp his house but somehow you precomp the assignment??? I mean how good are you? I often am fooled by the tax card and find the house I am appraising to be nothing like I think would "comp" with it.
Last two Lu is working on one was 1800 SF on tax card, but they missed an entire floor.. Its about 2,500. The other the opposite. They included the FROG as GLA but it wasn't finished, in fact it was bare studs and a plywood floor. storage only. So 2,500 became 2,190...

LIKE I SAID....you guys are really really good that you can tell what is out there before you ever see it and have picked the perfect comps before hand...Ha.
 

Eturner

Sophomore Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Illinois
I'm with you Terrell. I try to get enough information from the borrower to "ball park" a few possible comps, but I carry an MLS comp book with me. I make sure I copy some of the more recent sales since the MLS book came out. Often times, however, the subject bears no resemblance to what the borrow described to me. I must often return to the field to take some additional comparable pictures. But a number of my appraisals are more than 25 miles away from my office.I do everything I can to avoid going back for a time consuming second trip.

I also do a reasonably detailed sketch, but I don't put in windows. Goodness, doing a good sketch is the most interesting part of my work up of the report!
I have been doing assignments in the private market since 1994 and it still takes me more than 8 hours (sometimes much more). I am a slow typist and I do everything myself, even the bookkeeping. I am not making a great deal of money, but I enjoy my work. To be fair, those who get numerous repeat assignments in the same area where they can draw up comparable sales from their previous assignments can, no doubt, get the time down to 4-6 hours, but I don't get those kind very often.
 

Couch Potato

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
So you tell the lender you cannot pre comp his house but somehow you precomp the assignment??? I mean how good are you? I often am fooled by the tax card and find the house I am appraising to be nothing like I think would "comp" with it.
Last two Lu is working on one was 1800 SF on tax card, but they missed an entire floor.. Its about 2,500. The other the opposite. They included the FROG as GLA but it wasn't finished, in fact it was bare studs and a plywood floor. storage only. So 2,500 became 2,190...

LIKE I SAID....you guys are really really good that you can tell what is out there before you ever see it and have picked the perfect comps before hand...Ha.
One doesn't have to know anything about a house to take 3 minutes to print a list of all the sales in the area to a PDF. After the inspection you visit about a dozen of the most likely comps.
 

Don Clark

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
One doesn't have to know anything about a house to take 3 minutes to print a list of all the sales in the area to a PDF. After the inspection you visit about a dozen of the most likely comps.

And, a lot depends on how well you know your market, and your market. If I am doing an appraisal in the 6 contigious City area where I live it is not difficult, after choosing the parameters of what a comp should have in comparison to my subject that I have already researched, and I select a number of those to take with me. I usually take, if available, about 3 times the number I will end up using. Now, if I am doing an appraisal in the rural areas of the 2 counties I cover in North Carolina, I take more data with me. But even there, after having done appraisals there for almost 20 years, I know the areas well enough to have selected enough sales to look at. Have I been wrong? You betcha. But, it is usually because the data for the subject was not correct. In that case, i will go back out again with appropriate sales to consider. Does not happen often.

BTW Terrell, whether or not I could pre comp for a client or not is not the issue. I don't do that because I believe in getting paid for what I do. Most who want a comp check are looking for a freebie.
 

Marcia Langley

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Missouri
I think we all know how to build efficiencies into our work so hyper-fast completion times depends mainly on two factors.

Differences between market areas are a huge factor. If the market is literally

a collection of nearby subdivisions and projects
that are filled with model matches,
good data is easily available,
there is a high level of sales activity,
and prices are stable,

then speed is easy and understandable. If anyone still has (or ever had) the pleasure of working in a market like that, good for them! But distort any one of those items to a certain degree and the assignments become more complex.

Those of us that never worked in that sort of market are understanably skeptical of claims that decent appraisals can be completed in four hours on a consistent basis. And appraisers who do work in that sort of market are skeptical of slower appraisers' work ethics and technology. But the differences between markets renders skepticism moot.

The second factor is the appraiser's willingess to cut corners to meet the industry's demand for speed. This is about fundamentals, not frills. It is about what the client really needs to make a competent lending decision and about what an appraiser needs to ensure a credible report.

Just taking market trend analysis as an example, in a stable or rising market the client as well as most appraisers were willing to forego in-depth market trend analysis. In that sort of market development time and report space for detailed market trending seemed like a frill. It's just a dang mortgage appraisal, right? The client is not willing to give me the time or the money to do the fundamentals. Regurgitating the MLS statistics are plenty good in a boiler plate comment.

But appraisers who were willing to take that shortcut in a boom need to rethink their methods in a bust. It's obvious from the client letters to appraisers that have been posted in this forum that clients are demanding the fundamentals. Now appraisers who try to skate with trend verbiage that "sounds good and will fly past the underwriter" without doing the fundamentals will be in jeopardy of not being credible.

Of course clients are now demanding the fundamentals while not budging an inch on their arbitrary turn times. Make no mistake about it, this is just another example of risk-layoff. The client has established in writing what they expect in a credible appraisal. If it turns out the appraisal was not credible, the client will be perceived as the victim of the unethical appraiser.

Market trending is just one example of corner cutting that fits this risk-layoff pattern propagated by some clients. Every time one shortcuts a fundamental development/reporting task for the purpose of meeting a hyper-fast turn time they need to assess it and acknowledge at least to themselves that they are taking on this liability.

Consistent four hour completion times does not give anyone bragging rights. It either means you work in an ideal environment or you are cutting fundamental corners.
 
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