HUD Minimum Crawl Space requirements - 12x12 Rear Addition which has "crawl space"

[AnonApprsr]

This is urgent due to the fact that this is an appraisal from 30 days ago. I received an email from a client's "corrections department" asking for me to make a note in the appraisal that the crawl space meets HUD minimum property standards. It's really not a crawl space as much as just space underneath an addition. Hold on, i'll get a pic.

http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearpic1gf3.jpg

I had not measured this because for some reason in my head I thought a rear addition's "basement" didn't have to be measured. I also STUPIDLY noted this is as crawlspace in the appraisal.

I don't have time tonight (it's 11:30, I was late checking my email) to go measure this space. What is HUD's thoughts on an additions "basement." I think it's not a basement or "crawl space" and I shouldn't have called it that to begin with.

Well I need help. What does HUD say about that. What's the HUD normal crawl space requirement, 36 inches? I really appreciate the help guys.

Oh and for the kicker they also want a 4th comp, within 1 mile, from the last 6 months. Don't they always?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mztk1]

Well Anonymous you would have been stupid not to call it a crawl space because that is what it is. The crawl space should be 18" from the ground to the bottom on the floor joists. It is highly recommended but not mandated. Disclose what it is in the report, if it is less than 18" state that it is below the recommended clearance and that is pretty much it. You are also supposed to look for loose insulation, moisture, damage to floor boards and anything out of the ordinary. I always include a picture of the area under the crawl.

Generally, if it is less than 18", it does not automatically disqualify the dwelling from FHA financing.

 

[AnonApprsr]

Generally, if it is less than 18", it does not automatically disqualify the dwelling from FHA financing.

So even if it's not >=18 inches, I can still say that the "the Subject and crawl space both meet HUD minimum property standards" assuming everything else does?

Mike

 

[timd354]

I agree with Jim's post....that is most definitely a crawl space.....here are the FHA guidelines that are appliacable to the situation (from page D-22 of appendix D of HUD Handbook 4150.2):


Crawl Space

• Mark this box if any part of the foundation system has crawl space.
• Access to the space should be clear. Examine the crawl space for inadequate access (minimum entry of the head and shoulders).
• Check the distance from the bottom of floor joists to ground. Space should be adequate for maintenance and repair. A minimum distance of 18 inches from the ground to the bottom of the joists is highly recommended but not mandated.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Mr. Klos, Timd,

I don't see how either of you can possibly come to that conclusion from that photo. I sure did not see any photo of the so-called basement or crawlspace either one. You both have to be basing your EA's on the appearance from the exterior rear shot only instead of conclusive evidence presented by the O.P.

Show me what is being asked about. Not just the back of the house. We don't even have a photo of the access that made this O.P. call it a basement to begin with. I would expect any person in this trade to know a basement from a crawlspace. I want to know why our Mr. Mike here was ever calling this a basement in the first place.... Show me proper photos!!!!!!

Webbed.

 

[timd354]

Mr. Klos, Timd,

I don't see how either of you can possibly come to that conclusion from that photo. I sure did not see any photo of the so-called basement or crawlspace either one. You both have to be basing your EA's on the appearance from the exterior rear shot only instead of conclusive evidence presented by the O.P.

Show me what is being asked about. Not just the back of the house. We don't even have a photo of the access that made this O.P. call it a basement to begin with. I would expect any person in this trade to know a basement from a crawlspace. I want to know why our Mr. Mike here was ever calling this a basement in the first place.... Show me proper photos!!!!!!
Webbed.

Mr. Duck,

In the picture, it is clear that there is a space under the addition and the post number 1 states that this area is "just space underneath an addition"
The OP also states that he does not think it is a basement....in any case, it does not appear to be enlcosed in the picture, so it must be a crawl space (I have never seen a basement that is open at the top all of the way around the perimeter). Now I have not been to the property and the picture is not the best picture, so it is possible, that I am incorrect (you are correct the evidence is not 100% conclusive). However, I am not doing an appraisal here, so if I am wrong, then I am wrong. I was just trying to help a poor, ignorant appraiser out who apparently cannot tell a crawl space apart from a basement by giving him the most likely answer based on the evidence that he provided.

It is a whole different issue that we have someone who is an appraiser that apparently cannot determine what is a crawl space or what is a basement and also does not know how or where to look up the HUD property standards to find out what the FHA guidelines are for crawl spaces. I will just say that the banks and regulators got what they wanted when they set the licensing standards to allow anyone with a high school diploma or a GED, 90 hours of so-called education, which could mostly be done online in some states, and an appraisal experience log that was often largely bogus and went unchecked by the licensing authorities ....at least the licensing standards have increased somewhat recent, although they are still pitifully low....but that is a discussion for another time and place.

 

[AnonApprsr]

Mr. Duck,

In the picture, it is clear that there is a space under the addition and the post number 1 states that this area is "just space underneath an addition"
The OP also states that he does not think it is a basement....in any case, it does not appear to be enlcosed in the picture, so it must be a crawl space (I have never seen a basement that is open at the top all of the way around the perimeter). Now I have not been to the property and the picture is not the best picture, so it is possible, that I am incorrect (you are correct the evidence is not 100% conclusive). However, I am not doing an appraisal here, so if I am wrong, then I am wrong. I was just trying to help a poor, ignorant appraiser out who apparently cannot tell a crawl space apart from a basement by giving him the most likely answer based on the evidence that he provided.

It is a whole different issue that we have someone who is an appraiser that apparently cannot determine what is a crawl space or what is a basement and also does not know how or where to look up the HUD property standards to find out what the FHA guidelines are for crawl spaces. I will just say that the banks and regulators got what they wanted when they set the licensing standards to allow anyone with a high school diploma or a GED, 90 hours of so-called education, which could mostly be done online in some states, and an appraisal experience log that was often largely bogus and went unchecked by the licensing authorities ....at least the licensing standards have increased somewhat recent, although they are still pitifully low....but that is a discussion for another time and place.

Wow. I don't remember asking to be insulted, just asked for help. My query was based on the fact it's an addition. If that was the whole house, than of course it's crawl space. I was wondering if HUD treated an addition differently. Oh, and I have an Associates Degree in Economics. So, thanks for the assumptions, I truly appreciate it. If I had known you were going to be a jerk, I would have asked that you not help me. Your comments aren't worth the help, to be honest. I hope you don't fall off your high horse, i'd hate for you to get hurt.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Mr. Timd,

I have to admit, might be post and beam. But too hard to see. By the way, you need to read the new licensing standards again. A "Licensed" appraiser doesn't even need a grade school diploma.

Webbed.

 

[Lawrence R.]

I wasn't sure if the name meant anonymous appraiser or

A Non Appraiser....

Now... that is an insult. What the other appraisers was doing is called chastisement...see the difference?

PS, only playing with ya...don't leave the slow pitches out over the plate like that around here....

 

[RSW]

Webbed, I agree with you on your thoughts on this. I would also like to add this is what we get when we get a bunch of new appraisers on the FHA roster doing appraisals that don't know what they are doing in the first place.

Comments to the OP.

I would be very careful with this one as it seems that HUD/FHA is already watching you.