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I AM FIRING THEM FIRST!

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Jeff Horton

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Alabama
Excuse me while I vent. I just got a new client as a customer that seemed to be a really good lender. First Appraisal that didn't come in to value and they call asking questions. OK, I can understand that. They need to know what their options are. Discussed it in detail and that seemed that.

THEN he calls back and asks if he has to pay since it didn't hit the value!! My blood boiled but I kept my cool. Told him well yea, I did the work and expected to get paid. Most of you know where the conversation went from there. "Well all the other appraisers tell me if it is not going to appraise so I dont have to pay for an appraisal"

I am still so mad I could spit nails. I then talked to the partner that I like and told him I made the other guy mad. Then he politely told me that they had to know ahead of time if the appraisal wasn't going to "come in". Then the famous line "all the other appraisers do this...."

I have fumed and thought and I have decided to fire this lender. Going to write them a letter explaining why what they are asking is wrong and that if this is what they require then I will not be able to work for them.
 

Red Blumenstock

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Jeff,

Refer them to AO-19 and also the Management Section of the USPAP. Also Page 11 of the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions. That has the "Question: Is it ethical for an appraiser to offer a client a reduced fee on an appraisal if the client's loan does not close?"

ASB "Response: No. Offering a client a reduced fee on an appraisal if the client's loan does not close is a violation of the ETHICS RULE of USPAP. The Management section of the ETHICS RULE states:
It is unethical for an appraiser to accept compensation for performing
an assignment when the compensation is contingent upon:
1. the reporting of a predetermined result (e.g. opinion of value;
2. a direction in assignment results that favors the cause of the client;
3. the amount of a value opinion;
4. the attainment of a stipulated result;
5. the occurrence of a subsequent event directly related to the
appraiser's opinions and specific to the assignment purpose
.
(Bold addedfor emphasis)"

If they can read English, this is fairly self explanatory.[/i]
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
At least you found out that these guys will stiff you before you've got a dozen reports on their desk and no checks coming your way.

Roger
 

Jeff Horton

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Alabama
Here is my reply to them. And Red, I wrote this before I read you post. I guess Great Minds do think Alike. :)

I missed the FAQ but I may incorporate that in my letter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 27, 2002

PrimeMAX Mortgage

Dear Mr. Loan Officer

I regret to inform you that I can no longer perform appraisal work for your company with the preconditions you are placing on your requests. All Appraisers are required to comply with the Uniform Standards of Appraisal Practice (USPAP). The Ethics Rule in USPAP states:

"It is unethical for an appraiser to accept compensation for performing an assignment when it is contingent upon:

1. the reporting of a predetermined result (e.g., opinion of value), or
2. a direction in assignment results that favors the cause of the client, or
3. the amount of a value opinion, or
4. the attainment of a stipulated result, or
5. the occurrence of a subsequent event directly related to the appraiser 's opinions and specific to the assignment's purpose."


By researching the market to know if the “comps” will support a value range relative to the loan amount, I will be deciding which sales are “comps” and what those “comps” mean. Those decisions will then result in a range of value for your prospective borrower’s property. Once done, this has become an appraisal and the USPAP requires that I have a work file documenting how I came to this value conclusion.

By informing me that you must have a specific value and that in effect you don’t want an appraisal if it will not appraise for that value is asking me to violate the Ethics Rule. As you are aware, an appraisal must be done to determine what the value is. However, if this value doesn’t meet your requirements and you don’t want me to write the report and I don’t get paid, I have just violate all 5 of the rules listed above. Simply stated, if I am not paid for the appraisal I just completed, regardless if the report was or was not written, I have still appraised a property contingent on the value.

In my phone conversation with you and Chad earlier today, it has become obvious that it is expected your appraisers to let you know beforehand if the appraisal meets your requirements. Chad implied that since I was not willing to do this, he needed to know before placing an order. I took that to mean he will no longer send me work.

Apparently you have Appraisers who are willing "sell" their ethics and to violate the rules we are bound to in order to receive work from you. I am not one of those. I will quote to you from my original letter sent to you a few weeks ago. In it I said:

“I have adopted the motto “When Honesty and Integrity matters.” ……… I offer professional service based on Christian values and morals.”

That applies to ALL aspects of my work including following the Appraisal Guidelines that I, as an appraiser, am bound to.

I will be happy to perform appraisal work for you without preconditions. However, if these preconditions are to be a part of your assignments, then I must respectively request you remove me from your list of appraisers.


Regretfully




S. Jeff Horton
 

Pine Tree

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Maine
Jeff

This is a good reply that outlines your position very well.

Good for you! Get rid of them NOW.. And consider it a gift to yourself!

Your life will be much less complicated without this type of client..
It strikes me these folks are always the slickest of the slick and often suck you into the vortex of exactly where you don't want to be by attempting to make their requests and wants sound reasonable.. One arguement that should never work with a professional appraiser is any sentence that starts with " all the other appraisers" ! I don't believe it for a minute!

ROCK ON! Wendy
 

Travis McGee

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
The unfortunate part about this situation is that you can quote USPAP till the cows come home, the lender is not bound to USPAP, only the appraiser is. This type of lender only care about making deals and if your aren't helping them make deals, you are not going to get paid. Plain and simple, your ethics do not enter into their equation.
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
It comes around to the same problem though........USPAP only applies to the appraiser. No one else is bound by it, and most people in the real estate industry have never read a sentence of it. There needs to be some sort of even middle ground. Either make it binding on not only the appraiser, but all licensed real estate professionals.......or get rid of it.

I haven't thought the rest of this message through too much, so I reserve the right to change my mind at a later date if I decide that I was totally off my rocker :) , but:

I'd have to vote to get rid of USPAP. The idea has good merits, but the actual implementation hasn't been successful. As with most laws, they're only followed by a couple different types of people. The ethical.......and the people who follow the rules because they're scared of the consequences of breaking the rules. For the most part, the ethical people don't need the rules to begin with. As for the people that follow the rules to stave off the consequences, where are the consequences? For most states, the consequences consist of a very very small chance of getting caught, and if caught, it usually takes 2-5 years for any action to be taken. And in my experience (not personal :) ), the first offense or two is usually something like a couple hundred dollar fine or some required continuing education classes. With the consequences being so small and unlikely, the only people that USPAP tends to be followed by are the appraisers who are already ethical. So instead of USPAP helping to clean up or regulate the profession, I see it as just being another hurdle stuck in the way of the better portion of the appraisal profession.

With that being said, I know that we need some rules to be able to expel the blatantly crooked people in the profession, but they need to be simple enough to understand, so that if someone's guilty as sin, we can get them off to another occupation in a matter of months, not decades.
 

Jeff Horton

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Alabama
I'd have to vote to get rid of USPAP. The idea has good merits, but the actual implementation hasn't been successful. As with most laws, they're only followed by a couple different types of people.

I have to disagree even thought I know how you feel. To me that is like saying lets get rid of speeding laws since most people don't get caught. Or robbery since so many get away with or any other number or laws.

Most may get away with breaking it but without it anyone could do anything and where we be then?
 

Elliott

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
Ahhhhh eithics....I remember those, so pleasant to
the mind, yet so difficult in practice.

Here's where I draw the line....unless there is a
line in the request about 'notify us if the value is low',
I complete the appraisal and expect payment.

Somehow quoting USPAP to a lender is not as
effective as saying you think you might report their
actions to the mortgage commissioner, cause
their trying to 'shop' for an appraisal or influence
value.

So you don't want to pay me huh....well, then you will
be put on my 'do not work for' list and I will make sure
you'll have to waste ten times more of your time
responding to complaints than it took me to do your
appraisal......oh and I'm going to put your name on
the NATIONAL DEADBEAT LENDER LIST.

PS--I've actually had dead beat accounts paid in full
when I've turned down future appraisals...especially
after I notify their borrower I don't work for that deadbeat
mortgage compnay.


elliott
 

Red Blumenstock

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Jeff,

Good for you on both messages. I have often said that there is one thing in this world that no one can take away from us - our integrity - we have to give that away. I'm with you all the way.
 
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