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"if Value Becomes An Issue. . ." (rant)

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Joshua Fookes

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
OK maybe hate is a strong word, but man it bugged me to no end when I got this request from an unamed company that does "Real Estate Appraisal Services". It is an outfit out of the area that got a request from a bank in their area to do an appraisal on a property in my area. They send this request to us that requests (more like demands certain things)

They have instructions for us included with the request :angry: Here are a couple:

Please do a property profile/comparative review upon receipt of order - if there are any issues (zoning, property type, value, etc) - do not proceed-Contact US immediately

NO WAY!!!!! They aint getting no free illeagal appraisal from me :angry: Besides, value really is not an issue for me. They are wanting to get an appraisal only if it works for them and hits their number. :angry: I'm not going to violate USPAP by accepting an assignment only if it is contengient on hitting some value. NO WAY. I"m working too damn hard at this appraisal stuff, and too much is depending on my appraisal income, to have my license yanked, or my progress penalized because of this yahoo outfit. AAHHHHHHHHH!

It goes on....

Use our address for appraiser address in the report

This one I have a question about. I don't work for these guys, I work for myself and this seems a bit misleading. Why can't they just tell their client that they are not competent and that they hired somebody who was? Is this something that you guys do?

It goes on to say All reports must be submitted to US no report is to be sent directly to the client/lender

How does this work for a loan purchased by Fannie?

Just a greenie and not wanting to get jerked around
:angry:

Josh
 

Austin

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Virginia
Josh:
Appraisers complain about AVM but that is what this company is using you to do for them. Put yourself in the position of the LO. You get a loan application from the other side of the country. You know nothing about the real estate on which the loan is based. If I were the Lo I would like to know some things before I proceed. Is the property marketable; is the value need within a reasonable range; is there something about the property that may complicate the deal like an illegal zoning use etc.
These companies are basicially using your service for free by essentially implying "you do what we say or you will never get any bussiness from us and or we will spread it around that you are not cooperative" which in my view is an ethics violation for any apppraiser that falls for that line and an ethics violation for the Appraisal Services Company who engage in these actions. Who should we blame? I blame the state banking regulators for not having any ethical code or standards in place for lenders. As I have stated numerous times before: "The industry is leaderless."
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
I may be wrong.

But I think putting their address down as your address would be aviolation of USPAP just as much as accepting an assignment with a specified value or range of value.

The comp search could be legimitate if done in compliance with USPAP but I don't do anything free. There is always a fee to pay.

If someone wants a restricted report to determine if they want to proceed with a full appraisal and is willing to pay for the time required I would accept it. You still have the same requirements for reporting and record keeping.

I have know several good loan officers who have done that in thier process. They viewed the subject property, viewed the neighborhood, called to see if the area had any problems that I was aware of. Then they ordered the appraisal or they didn't. All I did was inform them of any problems they might not be aware of since they did not work the area on a regular basis.

Telling a loan officer a subdivision has a flooding problem or something similar is not giving a value and not in violation of USPAP.

I had a request from a good client last week in an area where floods are frequent and sometimes deep enough to keep school buses and large trucks out. Thay thanked me for the servie I provided and said they would call me when they had another one in the area. I have no doubt this company was honest in their appreication.

Now that I have gotten completely off the original subject I will go away. Not quietly and not for long but I will go.

Please join me in a prayer for all those going in harm's way for freedom's sake.
 

Travis McGee

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Josh - I have been appraising for 10 years. I have learned...we do not have to accept every order that comes our way. Some clients are too troublesome, cheap, or unethical ( or all three) to respond to. These folks sound like one of them. Especially the people who call from out of state, out of the blue, with the occasional order. I have found that in the long run, I am better off with fewer, but more solid clients who order regularly from me. When oddball assignments come my way, I say that I can't accept any more work at the time.

PS- I respectfully disagree with Roger about giving out flood, or any other opinion/ information, etc prior to doing a report. One) We are not flood experts, and if a loan officer decides not to proceed with a file based on our opinion of say, a property being in a flood zone, the homeowner could sue us if we were wrong, or sue us for anyway, for intefering in thier right to get a loan. Who are we to say they/the property will be denied, for any reason? Do you want to assume that liablity?

2) From a business sense, why are we giving away free information? Most of those people calling are just fishing, we never hear from them again. The ones that do call and could be good clients, will still be good clients, if we tell them those requests are out of our area of expertise and we can not provide them.

The more we give away information and act too eager to please, and desperate for buisiness, the longer we will continue to be exploited.
 

Kathy in FL

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
I used to be a pushover, too...but I've learned to say...

I'd love to talk to you, but I can't discuss (potential) value with you without doing an appraisal. And no, I can't pull comps and call you with a value before I go out. That takes time and isn't ethical. I know that you and your homeowner are taking a risk, but (EMPHASIS) I'm here to make money. Not here to work for free.

That generally shuts 'em up. Gets 'em off the phone fast, too.

Kathy in FL
(Getting serious about making money!)
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
Jo Ann,

I agree with what you said.

There is a liability in doing what I ssuggested.

I only do that with loan officers, etc who I am confortable with, have a business relationship with, and am willing to accept some liability for.

It is a business decision.

I also provide a service to realtors who fit that comfort requirement. If they will tell me what they have I will tell them how I as an appraiser will treat that situation. They are told and understand they have to be accurate in their description.

I am one of those appriasers who believe that I can do my job better if I know and understand the problems of underwriters, etc. I understand that some appraisers don't feel that way.


I do not advocate doing that with joe blow from podunk. I don't really know where podunk is.

Sometimes you have to make business decisions based on taking care of customers provided the specific thing you do or say does not violate principals, rules of operation, USPAP, etc. Each appraiser, etc has to make those decisions.

What I advocate is that appraisers should be willing to consider taking that position from time to time with some individuals.

We always have to be willing to live with the possibility that a "friend" will hurt us. When that happens we have to have faith that the sun will come up, the world will continue to rotate on it's axis, that God requires that we forgive wrongs done to us, and that we can go on to be a better person.

That friend will suffer, we don't have to.

We must be careful, but if we shy away from risk we suffer to some extent.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If we are not willing to risk, we will not progress, grow, succeed.

Thank you for the opportunity to expand on my thought. Please do so again. Anytime some one critiques what I say and makes me think about what I have said or done I have the opportunity to grow. Thank you.

Please join me in a prayer for those brave souls putting themselves in harm's way for freedom's sake.
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
I used to be a pushover, too...but I've learned to say...

I think every appraser goes throught the same trials and growing stages. It is easier to say NO, and not worry about your license and livelyhood, than to say okay, and worry about keeping a not so good client happy.
 

Travis McGee

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Josh-You sound like a kind, generous person and I join you in your prayer.

My point of view, after being an appraiser for 10 years (before that, a real estate salesperson for five), combined with observing the way professionals in other fields conduct themsleves, is that we appraisers are a sorry bunch as business people. We give away too much of our time away for free (what you call providing a service).

Not to mention undercharging - all this translates into us getting much less respect, and compensation, than our liablilty and responsiblity should command. Why are we such a wimpy goup? Perhaps we should consider taking some business courses, or mentoring from people in other fields.

Home Inspectors, with much less liablity and no licensing requriements, know better. Can you imagine them giving preliminary reports on a home they haven't seen, so the buyer would know whether or not to spend money on an inspection? I don't think so.

.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
Jo Ann, I think you meant that last post for me.

All I can say is some of those situations where I gave that free advise on what I would do ended up with the sale being put together and I ended up dealing with the situation as an appraiser.

Most of the time the situation was as I had been told. A few times there were some slight variations which were explained to the realtor/loan officer who was better prepared to observe the next time.

No conflict as the realtor was never a client.

When the deal did not come my way the realtor/loan officer still had confidence in my opinion.

You were a realtor. How many times did you decline a listing because the asking price was too high. Then later, someone came to you as a referral because the person involved with the declined listing suggested you because they felt you knew what you were doing. I always considered that the highest of compliments and positive advertisement.

Thank you again.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Joshua,

Nicely ask them to please rewrite the appraisal order without the 'stop' condition and that your address MUST be on the appraisal because it would be illegal for you to do otherwise. If they don't, decline the order. This sounds like ones I've also received, I did what I suggested and received the 'clean' order and did the job. COD, of course.
 
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