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Is it just about over for the Fee based Indpendent Appraiser?

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Ray Miller

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
AMC and Big Banks calling the Shots

Reduced Number of Orders from Lenders

Some state boards looking for 100% perfection in a Report

No one wanting to pay the real cost of an appraisal, what it takes for an independent appraiser to cover all real cost of doing business and making a profit and living

Where do you see the future going for the independent fee appraiser????
 

PLCG

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
I think youv'e hit the nail on the head. These, and AVMs, seem to me to be the causes of the current problems for appraisers.

So, you're retiring. Can you use some help on the ranch? I'm good with horses!
 

Ray Miller

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
I think youv'e hit the nail on the head. These, and AVMs, seem to me to be the causes of the current problems for appraisers.

So, you're retiring. Can you use some help on the ranch? I'm good with horses!

Yes, Well we are selling the ranch.

We are pulling in our horns and getting ready for what the future holds for this country.

We are circling the wagons, buying enough arms and ammo to hold off people trying to stealing from our land. Our home grown food source.

The farm program is now for the very very rich. Don't think so, then why is Ted Turner the largest land holder in the US and get the most money from the Dept of Ag on the farm programs. Two years now and we don't have a new farm program.

If people thought the 30's were bad they have seen nothing yet.

Paper mills just announce closings yesterday hundreds out of work in our area.

Very little is manufactured in this country any more. No base of turning raw material into goods and then selling leaves a country very little. Case in point Italy.

I think we are on the slide like England, no longer to be a world power in a short time. Unless we steal from those that have it. IE the war. Look who is building and runing the wells and refineries over there. There labled US.


As each day passes I think it is one less day for the Independent Fee Appraiser.
 

Chuck Harlowe

Freshman Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
BPOs are also under cutting the Foreclosure business. I recently got a request from a big lender to do a BPO for $45.00. This big lender thought I was a broker. The big boys are substituting BPOs for Appraisals. They are using AVMs like this too and charging a full appraisal fee to the borrower on the HUD statement. This violation was brought to the attention of my state board but seemed confused about what they could do about it.

Im going to try and hang in there for awhile as a residential independent fee appraiser but its looking pretty bleak.
 

TEL2002

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Louisiana
I do not think the long term picture for appraisers is rosy. I know the short term is not.

I do think the economy will recover within 2-3 years. But I think the days of the need for appraisers to do appraisals for mortgages is drawing to a close. Before too long the vast majority of mortgages will be done with an AVM, AAVM, or BPO. What will the AMC's do then? Oh that's right, many of them control the AVM's.
 

William K

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Illinois
Ray,
I really do agree with most of what you have said. Regulators big (FEDERAL) and small (STATE) have an opportunity to make a difference in the present and future concerning mortgage lending and real estate. Yet by their actions ( Example: lets make more people be able to get a gov't insured 1.5% down loan) they realize the public as a whole really doesn't want to be protected! We are amount to the policeman, you hear about all the crookedness in the job and people become outraged at us all when we go above and beyond to try to help, we are required as protection to the public but when the policeman hands out that speeding ticket it's "don't you have anything better to do" when r value opinion comes in below what is needed to complete the loan we hear " but these people really need it & I will pay my loan I don't know why u are doing this to me and my family you should be taking care of that blatant fraud!". At the end of the day people feel sorry for the Crooks, how they were treated , how unfair it was to them?! The drug dealing crook pulls a gun on the policeman he shoots and the larger investigation at the end of the day is did the policeman use just force? The lender requests precomps, applies pressure for values and when an appraiser says no and turns them in, it's the appraiser who gets blackballed , gets reported to the state for minor typos or ends up in court trying to defend themselves against a well financed company. We are the necessary "evil" the crooks are just trying to make a living. The regulators realize this , they no the public needs protections but they also know that more times than not the public doesn't want these protections except in extreme situations. Without the government able to convince the public as a whole that are independent job is needed for public proptection I see our profession to continue to decay, I see computer values eventually taking over (because they are quick , cheap,and unbiased) and I see a new era of computer fraud with hackers changing everything from values to credit reports to fico scores, and I see our job as we no it go away and become nothing more than a "check against the computer" every now and then. I hope I am wrong!:fiddle:
 

xmtpedprl

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Professional Status
General Public
State
Florida
While I most certainly feel your pain, as we're feeling the same pain, I don't necessarily agree with the outcome.

1. There is certain legislature in process that may, in fact, mandate an appraisal for every FRT. If hat goes through it'll be a huge plus in our favor.

2. License laws have changed dramatically. It's going to be very undesirable to become an appraiser from here on in, therefore less people coming into the trade. There will be far less appraisers in the next two years, as well there should be. Too many came in for 'fast, easy, money...'

3. Natural events such as people retiring (and you shouldn't, Ray!), passings, and individual appraisal business collapse will leave the pool even thinner.

4. Action on appraisers 'who dun bad.' Fewer available appraisers due to (legitimate) do not use lists and state revocation/discipline. It's coming.

5. AVM's & BPO's are ridiculous products for all but the most disparate LTV's. They're going bye-bye as soon as the world admits what we, professional appraisers, already know: They don't work. They are cheap products leading to huge losses in all but the most rare of cases.

I cite the HELOC here. Does anyone here *not* have a horror story about many owners they've bumped into that are well over 100% on value due to a HELOC having been generated/approved by an AVM..? I see 3 to 5 every week.

And more.

This is a cycle, a vicious, wicked, cycle, one caused by greed and the corruption it brings about. And it will pass.

Ray, you're one of the good ones, and everyone here knows it. I know it. Hang in there, bud.

Dave...
 

William K

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Illinois
While I most certainly feel your pain, as we're feeling the same pain, I don't necessarily agree with the outcome.

1. There is certain legislature in process that may, in fact, mandate an appraisal for every FRT. If hat goes through it'll be a huge plus in our favor. May, and If and that's if it goes through as stated

2. License laws have changed dramatically. It's going to be very undesirable to become an appraiser from here on in, therefore less people coming into the trade. There will be far less appraisers in the next two years, as well there should be. Too many came in for 'fast, easy, money...' Double edge sword, less appraisers more push to do away with appraisals "because it's taking to long for loans", fewer loans due to appraisal hold-ups not good for an economy

3. Natural events such as people retiring (and you shouldn't, Ray!), passings, and individual appraisal business collapse will leave the pool even thinner. Again read above

4. Action on appraisers 'who dun bad.' Fewer available appraisers due to (legitimate) do not use lists and state revocation/discipline. It's coming.

5. AVM's & BPO's are ridiculous products for all but the most disparate LTV's. They're going bye-bye as soon as the world admits what we, professional appraisers, already know: They don't work. They are cheap products leading to huge losses in all but the most rare of cases. Unfortunate but key phrase in this statement "as soon as the world admits"

I cite the HELOC here. Does anyone here *not* have a horror story about many owners they've bumped into that are well over 100% on value due to a HELOC having been generated/approved by an AVM..? I see 3 to 5 every week. " I need my loan where is my family going to live, I will lose my house" when those comments are made before congress with all the cameras who do you think the Govt officials are going to side with? WE AS LENDERS ARE PROVIDING A PRODUCT DEMANDED BY THE PUBLIC. DO you honestly believe a lender making that statement won't have a larger backing than appraisers stating "but if the market starts to decline?"
And more.

This is a cycle, a vicious, wicked, cycle, one caused by greed and the corruption it brings about. And it will pass. This is true, but it will also return. Remember those who forget about history are bound to repeat it, (which we are doing right now)

Ray, you're one of the good ones, and everyone here knows it. I know it. Hang in there, bud. AGREE
Dave...


We have too much trust that the "RIGHT" thing will be done when in fact history tells us the "Popular" thing will be done. Seldom are the 2 the same!
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Ray: while you've still got a license, get a receprocity in an adjoining state. I know the locals are after you. However, given the problems in the future with getting a license, I wouldn't give it up without trying. For that matter, how about getting someone in NV to let you hang your license there? At least you've still got one and can make the ultimate decision as the dust settles.
 
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