Is this a good comparable to illustrate fraud in the market?

[Deleted member 80407]

Sales / foreclosure history of comparable:

Property foreclosed on 10/25/05 .

Property re-sold 12/12/05 for $110,000.

Property re-sold 12/30/05 for $130,000.

Property re-sold 3/21/06 for $310,000.

Property foreclosed on 9/10/07.

Property sold as REO on 1/10/08 for $71,000.

Property re-sold after REO purchase on 5/9/08 for $360,000.

LAND SALES WITHIN MARKET AREA:
Address List price Sold price Closed date DOM Site size
5143 Paulina $17,000 $16,500 10/31/07 74 25' x 125'
5315 Damen $31,500 $28,000 04/17/07 1 38' x 116'
2056 W 52nd Pl $29,500* $26,000 10/11/07 193 24' x 119'
5248 Winchester $19,900* $19,900 06/23/06 107 25' x 116'
5311 Wolcott $24,900 $20,000 03/25/06 66 25' x 125'
5138 Hermitage $34,995* $32,000 06/01.06 145 25' x 125'
5157 Hermitage $35,000* $32,000 07/03/06 233 24' x 125'
5343 Marshfield $35,000 $13,500 08/02/05 3 25' x 125'
5335 Paulina $25,000* $21,000 04/08/05 173 25' x 125'
2026 James $23,000 $21,000 11/17/05 12 25' x 125'

All land sales were located in same zoning district. Typical site size of 25' x 125'.

Wonder how any appraiser would have the guts to support this type of gain in a market declining between 15% and 20% in the last year.

 

[Karl]

px_cashback@ic.fbi.gov Ask them

 

[Angel M Prince]

The appraiser is never asked as long as the loan makes ever notice that? When it doesn't they give you 50 things to do to take your time and income.

 

[Scott Kibler]

I have quite a few review files for frame built 1890's two flats in Back of the Yards and Englewood. All with the miraculous $350k-ish appraisal. Had occasion to get into quite a few of them too. The term "rehab" often translates to "new siding". Keep seeing the same parties to the transactions too. Beware those transactions in which the seller shares my initials.

 

[Mystery man3]

I wish I could say I don't think this is typical. Every appraisal have ever seen from a new builder "recommended" appraiser has been fraudulant. Just three closed sales that are way bigger. Always coming in above purchase price even in declining markets

They are the worst.

 

[Karl]

The biggest problem that this current "sweep" had is that the sales of properties were distributed to various lenders. (One had 14 lenders for 17 sales) Looking at just one questionable sale was NOT enough to trigger full blown investigations. However once a "pattern" of sales were noted then things started to add up. So when Appraisers were saying they turned in a sale or 2 & nothing happened they were PARTIALLY right. Unfortunately/fortunately with the way our system is set up it takes much more to prove wrongdoing. BUT!! IF every Appraiser were to turn in sales that have a continous sales history as does the one that started this thread.

Imagine how much more evidence the good guys would have. Or the BAD depending on your view/involvement. .

 

[athome77]

Sales / foreclosure history of comparable:

Property foreclosed on 10/25/05 .

Property re-sold 12/12/05 for $110,000.

Property re-sold 12/30/05 for $130,000.

Property re-sold 3/21/06 for $310,000.

Property foreclosed on 9/10/07.

Property sold as REO on 1/10/08 for $71,000.

Property re-sold after REO purchase on 5/9/08 for $360,000.

LAND SALES WITHIN MARKET AREA:
Address List price Sold price Closed date DOM Site size
5143 Paulina $17,000 $16,500 10/31/07 74 25' x 125'
5315 Damen $31,500 $28,000 04/17/07 1 38' x 116'
2056 W 52nd Pl $29,500* $26,000 10/11/07 193 24' x 119'
5248 Winchester $19,900* $19,900 06/23/06 107 25' x 116'
5311 Wolcott $24,900 $20,000 03/25/06 66 25' x 125'
5138 Hermitage $34,995* $32,000 06/01.06 145 25' x 125'
5157 Hermitage $35,000* $32,000 07/03/06 233 24' x 125'
5343 Marshfield $35,000 $13,500 08/02/05 3 25' x 125'
5335 Paulina $25,000* $21,000 04/08/05 173 25' x 125'
2026 James $23,000 $21,000 11/17/05 12 25' x 125'

All land sales were located in same zoning district. Typical site size of 25' x 125'.

Wonder how any appraiser would have the guts to support this type of gain in a market declining between 15% and 20% in the last year.

If you want to have a little more fun, check out the names of the grantors/grantees listed on tax records and the listing agents for those magical $350K frame two units in the New City/Englewood area (NIMLS Market Area #8061). 18 sold over $300K in the past 18 mos. Of those, two agents listed and sold 12 of the 18. Grantor/grantees were the same on most of those. Uncovered this ring while doing a field review of a "rehabbed" two unit last week. AMC client ordered it as a "rush." One of the few AMC reviews I have done with a large value cut that additional comps/rebuttal were not provided by the original appraiser or client. I am hoping maybe he/she just got fooled by the data, but I doubt it since the appraisal indicated property values were stable with balanced supply and demand.

 

[Scott Kibler]

Gee Cee Realty?

 

[athome77]

Scott,

Ding Ding Ding

I see you've been doing your homework, too.

 

[Deleted member 80407]

You guys are good!!!! Some appraiser's appraise in the two referenced markets and would know a tainted sale if it bit them in the A'''sss/. I spoke with one person who does fraud work for the state of Illinois about a few properties in "New City" last year. The state knows about what is going on in the market and at least one appraiser who comes from a different state to appraise in the market.

I did a review a couple of weeks ago for a well known lending institution. Appraisal reported a value of $880,000 (new construction) in a market with the high sale being $467,000 (for a point in time ~ retrospective). My opinion of value was stated in a value range (not a point range) between $540,000 and $570,000.

I do not see how some appraisers can sleep at night.