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LA County: Rebuilt regarding a Non-conforming Lot (size-relate)

Russ Kitzberger

Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Ohio
Much appreciated. Just in general: do the results of court case in State A pertain to an indentical issue in State B?
I guess that depends, one your set of facts and whether it is a state constitution or US constitution issue. The law review citiation #29 (and some thereafter) cites multiple state decisions. Ohio cities had some of the first zoning in the USA, so zoning law here are pretty well established at a state and US constitution level. I think LA and NY did as well.
 

ZZGAMAZZ

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
How did you estimate/scope the project? like a builder who is required to provide an architect or engineer's stamp on a project; did you build in the legal opinion from an attorney on the (each) project.
That is a thought-provoking perspective, although the answer isn't straightforward (like most everything appraisal-related). Although I provide reference either to published documents or conversations with the jurisdictional authority (date of communications & initials of rep), I have never cited a court case, based upon the response I received from the AF a few years ago when I asked whether peers routinely do so, because I vaguely recall that nobody who responded did so in the affirmative. More about your perspective would be appreciated (although I started the day at 3 am to make tangible progress on specific assignments rather than to speak about appraisal theory, although it would be great to attend Appraisal University if such a place exists...)
 

Russ Kitzberger

Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Ohio
That is a thought-provoking perspective, although the answer isn't straightforward (like most everything appraisal-related). Although I provide reference either to published documents or conversations with the jurisdictional authority (date of communications & initials of rep), I have never cited a court case, based upon the response I received from the AF a few years ago when I asked whether peers routinely do so, because I vaguely recall that nobody who responded did so in the affirmative. More about your perspective would be appreciated (although I started the day at 3 am to make tangible progress on specific assignments rather than to speak about appraisal theory, although it would be great to attend Appraisal University if such a place exists...)
I can see why standard lending appraisal practice wouldn't be qualified to opine on certain items related to legal implications in real estate. In my practice area I am qualified to opine on certain land use regulations, tax regulations, and their market reaction as applicable to the subject property and comparables, market, or valuation related items.

This didn't happen from an appraisal university, it was from training and practicing in the legal support side and taking department of transportation courses which are based on constitutional law.

Directly to your question. You have two issues, first is that you lack the database to research the item the client needs in the appraisal analysis. The second is that even if you had the database (legal statute or case law) it might be so complex you might not have the skills to opine on the application of the legal framework to the market reaction and how that affects the subject.

The first part is to bring in a specialist, probably an attorney if it is really complex, to opine on the rebuild. Then perhaps default to a specialist such as myself for the market reaction to the condition upon the subject property.

You shouldn't have to get up at 3am for this profession, attorneys don't start work that early and neither does the zoning department. You will be too tired by 5pm to take the calls from the clients that pay well and value your skillset. I only know of shift workers and roofers in the south that start work that early because they have to and the roof is too hot by noon.
 

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Can anybody provide a reference to the LA County (e.g., Hacienda Heights) Planning doc that pertains to the rebuilt status of an existing SFR on a non-conforming parcel that is smaller than the current legal minimum?

I'm on the following site now: https://planning.lacounty.gov/.

Regards.
Actually it's impossible even in LA County or City to ever state something can be rebuilt without actually obtaining a rebuild letter from that City or County. This is because each rebuild is done on a case by case basis. Note: Hacienda Heights is an-Unincorporated Area in Los Angeles County and the owner-needs to get a rebuild letter which states whether the existing structure is conforming or non-conforming and whether it may or may not be rebuilt in the event that the structure is damaged or completely destroyed.

My experience has been normally they will allow up to 50% to 60% to be rebuilt from a fire. BUT I won't quote that without a letter and the owner or seller can pay for it. Normally $150.00-Bucks +/- IF THE site is been shrunk from its original size over the years and has created a situation where there is no on site parking then it may be a no go. You never know with any County in SO CA so throw it into the Underwriters lap and tell them to get a rebuild letter.Once they get the rebuild letter you can incorporate that into your report and state per LA County Planning Department it can be rebuilt up to X=% in event of a fire or natural disaster .

P.S. No we don't quote or cite court cases regarding these kinds of issues, they are administrative in nature and each case like the property is different with different circumstances and LA County and CA Judges are bought and paid for and the poor homeowner rarely wins anything but a big fat lien on their property and lots of fines .
 

Russ Kitzberger

Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Ohio
Actually it's impossible even in LA County or City to ever state something can be rebuilt without actually obtaining a rebuild letter from that City or County. This is because each rebuild is done on a case by case basis. Note: Hacienda Heights is an-Unincorporated Area in Los Angeles County and the owner-needs to get a rebuild letter which states whether the existing structure is conforming or non-conforming and whether it may or may not be rebuilt in the event that the structure is damaged or completely destroyed.

My experience has been normally they will allow up to 50% to 60% to be rebuilt from a fire. BUT I won't quote that without a letter and the owner or seller can pay for it. Normally $150.00-Bucks +/- IF THE site is been shrunk from its original size over the years and has created a situation where there is no on site parking then it may be a no go. You never know with any County in SO CA so throw it into the Underwriters lap and tell them to get a rebuild letter.Once they get the rebuild letter you can incorporate that into your report and state per LA County Planning Department it can be rebuilt up to X=% in event of a fire or natural disaster .

P.S. No we don't quote or cite court cases regarding these kinds of issues, they are administrative in nature and each case like the property is different with different circumstances and LA County and CA Judges are bought and paid for and the poor homeowner rarely wins anything but a big fat lien on their property and lots of fines .
Can't a client can order rebuild, zoning, or legal opinions from attorney(s) or other professionals?

Who is "we" in your statement. It seems that refers to someone who is not qualified to analyze that data? However, you state you have not only analyzed the data and law, then state that the judiciary is corrupt, regardless of the law? How did you come to that conclusion and opinions?
 

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Actually it's impossible even in LA County or City to ever state something can be rebuilt without actually obtaining a rebuild letter from that City or County. This is because each rebuild is done on a case by case basis. Note: Hacienda Heights is an-Unincorporated Area in Los Angeles County and the owner-needs to get a rebuild letter which states whether the existing structure is conforming or non-conforming and whether it may or may not be rebuilt in the event that the structure is damaged or completely destroyed.

My experience has been normally they will allow up to 50% to 60% to be rebuilt from a fire. BUT I won't quote that without a letter and the owner or seller can pay for it. Normally $150.00-Bucks +/- IF THE site is been shrunk from its original size over the years and has created a situation where there is no on site parking then it may be a no go. You never know with any County in SO CA so throw it into the Underwriters lap and tell them to get a rebuild letter.Once they get the rebuild letter you can incorporate that into your report and state per LA County Planning Department it can be rebuilt up to X=% in event of a fire or natural disaster .

P.S. No we don't quote or cite court cases regarding these kinds of issues, they are administrative in nature and each case like the property is different with different circumstances and LA County and CA Judges are bought and paid for and the poor homeowner rarely wins anything but a big fat lien on their property and lots of fines .

Can't a client can order rebuild, zoning, or legal opinions from attorney(s) or other professionals?

Who is "we" in your statement. It seems that refers to someone who is not qualified to analyze that data? However, you state you have not only analyzed the data and law, then state that the judiciary is corrupt, regardless of the law? How did you come to that conclusion and opinions?
As far as corruption in many cities and counties real estate development has always attracted some real characters. Just recently in Los Angeles City Councilman Jose Huizar was indicted by a federal grand jury on 34 counts alleging he ran a pay-to-play scheme in which developers were shaken down for cash bribes and campaign donations in exchange for his help getting high-rise projects through the city's approval. No big deal he must have crossed the wrong people and now he faces 10 to 20 in the Fed pen. A replacement has probably all ready been chosen : ) LOL
 
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