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last sale or transfer date

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LT3appr

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
California
My question is, for recent sales, can the transfer date on a forclosure going back to the bank be used as the last sale date? In RealQuest it shows as an Owner transfer just above the Last Market Sale Information. In the search it come up as the last sale and record date.m2:
 

TJSum

Elite Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Maryland
If I understand correctly, you are talking about the prior sale for comps? If so, why not show it, when I see this or a couple very recent sales (within a couple years) I will show them all, just to let the client know of the trends. On some of these foreclosure prices going back to the bank, you can see some crazy numbers, just show it and explain it all.
 

ZZGAMAZZ

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
I was taught by my mentor--and in retrospect it appears to be very sound advice--that transfers reflecting a bank foreclosing upon a property does not reflect market value; rather, that price reflects the outstanding balance of the loan rather than an open market transaction...and it's really less than a meaningless reflection of MV the more you think about it.

However, the foreclosure date must be described during the analysis of prior sales--in it occured within the 3 years prior to the effective date for the subject, or within the 1 year prior to the recent sale/transfer/activity date for a comparable. (In other words, the duration back-in-time for the comparables is not the efffective date of the appraisal; rather, it is the date upon which the comparable transfer is predicated. If active listings or pending sales are included in the grid, I prefer to research the 1 year prior to the listing date but don't know whether this reflects prevailing methodology.)

The analysis of prior "sales/transfers/activity" also warrants a description of the prior transfer: if it's a foreclosure it should be described as such, with pertinent, supporting data from MLS if the foreclosure was preceeded with an unsuccessful effort to market it short. An appropriate analysis of prior history also requires a description of any "changes" in condition to the comparables between the foreclosure and the subsequent transfer--all of which requires a lot of extra time but it's critical to explaining the market to the reader.

Caveat: Much of my current SOP is based upon info gleaned from the AF during a very brief period--often overwhelming in fact...
 

OSU Beavers

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Oregon
Show everything. I got dinged on a review a few years ago for not listing a transfer from husband to husband and wife on a bargain and sale deed for $0. It was not a sale and had no relavance, but still the reviewer was an @$$ and checked NO on the prior sales listed box.
 

CCAAMO

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Form 1004 asks for, and you are required to report , all prior sales and transfers (usually between 12 and 36 months prior to the current sales date). A bank repo is a transfer back to the bank, not a sale, but as a transfer you still need to report it. The same goes for the subject property as well.
 

Tim Hicks (Texas)

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Texas
Form 1004 asks for, and you are required to report , all prior sales and transfers (usually between 12 and 36 months prior to the current sales date). A bank repo is a transfer back to the bank, not a sale, but as a transfer you still need to report it. The same goes for the subject property as well.

That is correct. Anybody that whines because they were dinged for not reporting a transfer obviously has not correctly read the form they are filling out.
 

CANative

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
California
What about properties with zillions of interspousal deed transfers and transfers in and out of trusts (usually done when refinancing)?
 

OSU Beavers

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Oregon
That is correct. Anybody that whines because they were dinged for not reporting a transfer obviously has not correctly read the form they are filling out.

It was reported on the OLD 1004 back in 2005 which only asked for prior SALES, so yea I did whine. Especially since the rest of the review was crap and overturned by my two page rebuttal.

Speaking of bank transfers and reviews, back in 2001 I completed a report for a proposed new triplewide manufactured home. My best comparable was the closest to the subject and the only triplewide to sell all year.

The reviewer that Option One paid $100 to threw out comp one without an explaination and replaced it with a bank repo. Yes, that's right not a sale but a transfer from the borrower to the bank on a trustees deed for the loan balance! The reviewer is an ok guy but he must have been :new_all_coholic: when he wrote it. The review only consisted of check boxes and one run on paragraph full of spelling and grammar errors.

I pointed all of this out in my rebuttal, however the Option One chief appraiser said that they are standing behind their reviewer. I even spoke with one of the staff appraisers that I had done field reviews with for in the past and they agreed with me, but the chief appraiser would not budge. Can say that I am sorry to see Option One go under
:)
 
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John Hassler

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
When using the Fannie Mae forms I report any and all sale/transfers as required - 3 years for the subject and 1 year prior to the sale date for the comps. I find this to be a colossal waste of time as in the many years this has been a Fannie, and to a lesser degree USPAP, requirement I have yet to find an actual "flip". What I have reported are thousands of trust transfers and interspousal deeds along with the occasional fixer that has since been repaired/remodeled. I would guess it takes 10+/- minutes per report on average, costing my clients many thousands of $$$ over the years for what has been zero additional appraisal/loan security. Other areas may be different but true flips are a non-issue here.
 

Vegan702

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Nevada
What about properties with zillions of interspousal deed transfers and transfers in and out of trusts (usually done when refinancing)?

I don't report transfers between spouses, but everything else. I could be wrong about not reporting those transfers, but oh well.
 
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