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No HUD Label, No Inside Label....

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Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Manufactured home, county records show it's a 1990, current owner bought it in 1996 with FHA financing. Part of the deal at that time was to replace the rotted wood siding. It now has vinyl siding. The outside HUD metal tags are gone. The inside 8.5 x 11 label is gone. The HO found the original generic book from the manufacturer so I now have the manufacturer and serial numbers. Manufacturer is long gone and the company that bought it has no records from the previous manufacturer. I also have the state title numbers but the title doesn't have the HUD approval numbers.

I'm doing this appraisal for a FHA refi. Lender has no clue and has called to give me the same title numbers and serial numbers that I already have and don't seem to understand what my problem is. I've tried to have the lender get a copy of the original appraisal for me and they tell me they can't - HO doesn't have a copy of it - it was done in 1996 so the appraiser, even if anyone could find out who it was, probably doesn't have it anymore either.

HELP!!!

Is there somewhere I can find the HUD numbers for this unit with the manufacturer name and serial number?????
 

Jo Ann Meyer Stratton

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
I dug out the original National HOC Reference guide that came out 08-20-2000. They had a paragraph in it (it was dropped when that page was reissued in Dec, 2001) regarding missing HUD tags. My first question though is: Is Florida one of the states that will not allow the resale of a manufactured home if the HUD labels have been removed? If so, then that home has big problems. If the state doesn't care whether the HUD labels are there or not or whether they are readable or observable or not--then forge onward. Now for the paragraph that might be of some help: "In some states a manufactured home may not be re-sold if missing the seal (HUD label). If this is the case, the property is a reject. However, a lender may contact the NCSCS (Housing Building Technology Division) and request issuance of a letter stating that the home was in fact HUD labeled. Contact NCSCS (Pam Brillhart) 703-437-0100. (The information on the data plate inside the home is not an acceptable alternative.) The lender/home owner need to obtain the serial number(s) of the home from the data plate found inside the home, or the serial numbers found on the steel chassis under the home. With these numbers the HUD and the NCSCS can research to see if in fact the home was properly labeled."

Have you checked with the Florida Bureau of Mobile Homes & RV, Division of Motor Vehicles, 850-488-8600--that is a Manufactured Housing and Standards: State Administrative Agency (SAA), they are the state office that regulate and enforce the Federal manufactured housing program in Florida. The Arizona state office is very helpful, they have even faxed me a copy of their log that references the serial number with the HUD label number at times.

But if the home was not constructed in Florida, then a private inspection agency might have been involved. But check with the Florida Bureau first.

Although this is a refi---was there ever an inspection of the foundation by a Florida licensed engineer done? With the original FHA loan in 1996 the foundation was probably just accepted based on the appraiser's sayso, the requirement for a licensed engineer inspection didn't go into effect until 2000. However, there is that statement in Chapter 1-09, Reference guide of: "This procedure does not apply when the current FHA borrower refinances their loan.", so your VC sheet won't need that requirement (I don't think).
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
Pam,

HUD says flat out that if the labels are missing, the house is not eligible for FHA financing. Stop work! Report the problem to the lender and let them resolve the issue. This is now a problem for the homeowner and the lender to work out. Not you. They may be able to go back to the manufacturer and get the necessary certification but finding all of this out is certainly not part of the appraisal process (unless you are getting paid by the hour).


5/10/2003

Interestingly, we just had an FHA sales Thursday that had a couple of those old testing labs seals on the two halves and everyone thought it was a HUD house. Owner thinks it was built in 1979. Richard, the Appraiser, does not think so. Everything tells me it is pre-1976 and pre-HUD Code. I'm giving them, the owners & brokers, about 5 days to see if they can prove me wrong before I report to my client. Time will tell but I will not put any more work into this report until I have something substantial to proceed on.
 

Rlong

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Colorado
I'm waiting for someone to say they just rip off the siding... : ) Ive thought of that before, as a carpenter and builder in another life. "There you go mame, I found that tag for ya.... no need to thank me...just doing my job" with half the siding ripped off the back. "see ya!!"

Bob in CO
 

Kathy in FL

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Actually, the lender did that on one I did. Pulled the siding off, I mean. They made 'em do it. It was a doublewide on stilts, too.

Damned silly.

Kathy in FL
 

Darrell Hignite

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I was asked to do an FHA refi appraisal on a manufactured home that was only nine months old, the home had some damage due to a fire and replaced the siding, so no tag on the front. I informed the lender with the appraisal and told them they could not go FHA. I got a call from a bigwig in atlanta office of HUD and he told me the numbers were imprinted into the steel beams and I could find them there, I told him that the handbook (4150.2) says that if the tags are missing or covered over in brick, etc, that the home was not eligible for HUD financing, he inferred that it was if I crawled under to ascertain the numbers. Since the home was not built as per FHA specs nine months before, I informed him that the home did not qualify for more than one reason and he concurred....I also told him that he had not seen me and if I crawled under the home, it would have to mobile again, because someone would have to lift if off my big butt. That's why I love doing FHA appraisal work,,,the rules are there, but can be broken... :D
 

Wally Jones

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Pam,

Good stuff from Jo Ann (like that's a surprise! :D ). I had the identical situation last year. The lender ended up converting it to a conventional loan. The homeowner removed the siding, but the tags weren't there. I used the same information Jo Ann passed to you, but no luck. Wish there was a better answer!
 

Jo Ann Meyer Stratton

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
Several months ago I posted on the forum a message that had been posted on the Santa Ana HOC chat room regarding missing HUD labels. Just went wandering around the HUD.gov website and came across an announcement that was issued April 14, 2003.

http://www.HUD.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/mhs/mhslabels.cfm

It describes how, who and where a letter of verification can be obtained for units that have missing HUD labels (tags). Requests for the letter of verification can be called in to HUD or emailed. Information from the data plate inside the home or ownership documents or other documents that would show the name and address of the manufacturer, date of manufacture, serial and label numbers of the home (or as much as possible) needs to be provided. And they promise to respond within 3 to 5 business days!!

Also, the url for the HUD building code is at:

http://www.HUD.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/mhs/mhshome.cfm

Arrow down to Manufactured Housing Standards

Lots of other good stuff on that same website!
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
I swear Jo Ann, those guys can't hide anything from you can they?

Nice digging.
 

Steve Forstner

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Michigan
I'm working on a Redman home that has been resided and re-modeled. Of course, there are no numbers anywhere. Homeowner has a copy of the original title.

So, I checked the website for Redman Homes (a division of Champion Homes). They have an appraiser link on their website. It lists a contact person for appraisers needing info about Redman Homes.

I made a quick phone call, and was told that Redman keeps a photo copy of the HUD data plate in the file for the home. The guy I talked to told me he has only been there since 1990 but is pretty sure they have all or most of the plates. (The one I need is from 1984, and he's not sure about that far back). Apparently these files are archived and someone "goes over there" about once each day. I left my number and the mobile's serial number and I'm waiting to see what comes back. I'll let you guys know if I get my tag numbers or not.

Steve
 
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