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No master bath vanity or sink.

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Tim Hicks (Texas)

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Texas
OK, FHA gurus. I had a FHA assignment of a 1965 tract home in a small town. It is a 3/2, brick home with hundreds of homes just like it in the area. Everything is fine, newly scraped and painted, no repairs needed, only a termite inspection required, except...... The master bedroom has its own bath. One large closet, across from the closet is a similar size room with a tub and toilet. There should be a exterior vanity running down the wall with a sink in between the closet and bath area, but there is none. There is a blank wall and no evidence of a previous vanity. I have seen this set up 1,000+ times and there is always a vanity and sink. Now, if you want to wash your hands, you must go out the bedroom and down the hall to the other bath.

I figured this is just a functional problem, estimated a cost to cure and adjusted that amount in the market grid as functional utility. The sales price was not a problem. The problem is the underwriter now wants a letter from me stating that the vanity is not there by design. however, when I asked the listing agent, she said the plumbing was there in the walls, it just was not installed. Now, if it was a two year old home, I might believe it was by design. However, a 37 year old home may or may not have originally had the vanity. All the other homes in the area do. I told them I will not give them letter stating it is by design, because I do not know this is true. I also pointed out that I did not require adding the vanity, I functionally depreciated for it. Meanwhile, the whole deal is at a stalemate because the appraiser won't do as he was told. Oh, they bought the home three years ago just this way and nobody said anything then. Wanna bet, the appraiser never mentioned it.


What say ye?
 

larryhaskell

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Nevada
Tim:

It appears you may not have a full bath. Generally we note differences between a half bath and full bath but this is certainly a unique case. It would seem that if given a choice, a typical buyer would want a sink in the bathroom. Whenever in doubt, I always call REAC and get a final determination from them. If you do so, get a name for future reference.
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Tim,

Ask the underwriter where in 4150.2 it states a home needs two baths. One functioning bath is just fine.

The problem is you bugged the DEU out with the functional utility adjustment and now face her/his rath AKA, need to cover the DEU's posterior. The DEU is probably figuring, if it's functionally deficient, then it must not meet MPS but ...hell, we all know we can wash our hands in the tub, right??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Hey, what does this DEU require when there's just a toilet under the stairs in the basement or on the back porch/pantry???? Or if a room has a plumbing rough-in for a future bath or powder room. 8O 8O The MPS idea is for the home to have sanitary facilities-which your's has. Maybe the tub is an overgrown bidet?????

Seriously, one bath is OK. Adjust the master "whatever" in your home on a half-bath/fixture basis??? Yeah, that would work and unconfuse the DEU so he/she will see the light.

Ben
 

Larry Lyke

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
It's a sanitary-health issue. In this "half bath" scenario you can do #! and #2 in the water closet or take a bath in the tub, but there's no place to wash your hands after using the commode except in the toilet bowl (hopefully after you flush it) or under the tub tap.

The problem ONLY arises because the toilet exists.

I vote for conditioning for a lav.
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Hey L....

I'm being bad, of course, but I can just visualize all those "country" FHA appraisers "conditioning" for lavs on approved pit privies........ :lol: :lol: :lol: Properly installed 100' from a seepage pit, naturally.

I must admit, however, the new portapotties on construction sites now have anti-bacterial hand lotion dispensers in them due to the lack of a lav....but that was in an upscale Toll Brothers development.

Damn, I miss Henry C. He would have known for sure

Ben
 

Larry Lyke

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Ben --

You ain't plain bad when you are transgresing FHA's implied standard of health, safety and preservation...

You are being evil!

I would more likely file away in my mind, 'Now, why in the heck would anybody plumb a Bathroom with a water closet and bathtub without a lavatory?'

HEY, what if you don't want to take a bath in order to get your hands clean after using the toilet.

Then again, man is the only animal who fills a vessel with potable water, then goes to the toilet in it!
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
L,

No transgression made by me. There is no residential health requirement, except for food workers in a commercial workplace, to wash your hands after using a bathroom.......While it is nice to do so, it is not mandatory.

If pit privies are OK for FHA and they don't have lavs, then a part bath without a lav is OK by my reasoning, if they have a proper functioning full bath in the home which can be used for all personal needs. I take sanitation to mean proper containment/disposal of waste on the property (pit privy, cesspool or septic system) or the carrying away of waste from the property (Public sewer)

As you can see, anal retentive, I a'int...... the owner can wander down the hall and use the main bath or the kitchen sink, if necessary, to wash his hands. Or intall one of those anti-bacterial lotion dispensers found in the portapotties I mentioned.

Hey, I know. We can settle it this way/compromise. VC 11G for "Owner to remove toilet and cap waste line"....then we only adjust for the bathtub?????

Ben
 
B

Bemis Pownall

Guest
hey
ive been remodeling my home for 4 years

I use the kitchen sink
I have a working shower in the master bath that works
I have a toilet in the main bath that works
My house use to have 1.75 baths above grade(and will again someday)
I have a toilet in the basement 3/4 that works
the remainder is under construction

It works but I could never sell it for full market value in this condition.
 

Brad Pack

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
General Public
State
California
Ben & Larry,

You guys kill me! lol

Brad
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Brad,

Yeah.....now I'm really worried about my Claims and Defaults rate after this discussion....going through the roof.......or should it be down the toilet.......

Ben
 
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