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Now Chase is doing it.......

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Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Hold harmless clauses. :evil:
Got a request two days ago from LSI. No problem, set the appointment for tomorrow. Today I get an e-mail with an additional "required" addendum.

Whadda think about this hold harmless clause:
Appraiser is fully responsible for the integrity and authenticity of data and signatures transmitted electronically and will hold Chase harmless from and against any breach or failure of data integrity, signature authenticity, or breach of data security.

I basically said that I am not going to sign it because yes, I can "lock" a PDF file. BUT..... even PDF is not perfect; hard copies and PDF can be forged. I’m really paranoid about hold harmless clauses because they negate E&O coverage.

Ya’ll watch your backs...... err, I mean wallets...... out there.
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Mel:
I got one of those also....

LSI has another equally nasty form which had that 'indemnification for this and that" phrase scattered throughout it....

Again for anyone not aware of the legal definition when that word is used: pull out your dictionary or better yet find a lawyer and ask if HE/SHE would sign it.

You will get a resounding "Not only No, but HELL NO :evil: ! in response...

IF you sign you are agreeing to bear ALL costs (legal and otherwise) associated with ANYTHING that is found, or thought to be, or threatened, and or even suspected to be wrong or maybe :roll: wrong with your report even if your report is 100% defensible and correct...

AND your E&O will in nearly all cases NOT cover for this willful act of idiocy (signing) on your behalf...
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Is this thing being originated by Chase or is it a brainstorm of LSI ?
I do Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corp work and have heard nothing about this.

Since I fired LSI decades ago, it wouldn't surprise me that LSI dreamed
this one up, or there is something else behind it. Chase is one of the most reasonable banks out there and so far a pleasure to work with.
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Joe:

I got one of those or rather a request to include some similar language IN a Chase Direct order... I semi-complied but rewrote it to my satisfaction... I think it started at Chase but got stupid through the filter.
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Joe, I have done a lot for Chase too; that's what surprized me. This is a 2055 driveby ordered through LSI for Chase. Like I said, I got the order two days ago, set the appointment, then got this "Oh by the way, we need this" :evil: e-mail this morning from an "AMT Supervisor".

I don't really know, but LSI claims it is, from Chase. Here is the whole form they want:
Appraiser’s File #:

APPRAISER ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Appraiser acknowledges and agrees, in connection with electronic submission of appraisals to Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corporation or any of its affiliates (“Chase”), as follows:

· This appraisal complies with USPAP and, when applicable, to Federal Housing Administration or Department of Veterans Affairs standards and requirements.
· The software utilized by Appraiser to generate the appraisal protects signature security by means of a digital signature security feature for each appraiser signing the report, and each appraiser maintains sole control of their related signature through a password, hardware device, or other means.
· Appraiser is fully responsible for the integrity and authenticity of data and signatures transmitted electronically and will hold Chase harmless from and against any breach or failure of data integrity, signature authenticity, or breach of data security
· Adobe’s Distiller software or equivalent is utilized by Appraiser to transmit this encrypted .pdf-formatted appraisal.
· At a minimum, the software contains the following security measures:
· Identifies transmission errors during the transmission process, and
· Confirms date, time and quantity of data transmitted by Appraiser and confirms the transmission was received by Chase. and
· Secures data from editing by means of a password, hardware device, or other means that remains in the sole control of the transmitting appraiser.
· All such transmissions shall be routed only to Chase at the email address provided in the assignment request at the time the order was placed, unless subsequently directed otherwise by Chase. Appraiser agrees that no such subsequent transmission will result in additional fees billed to Chase, unless agreed to by Chase before said subsequent transmission.
· No duplicate transmission of this report will be made and no delivery of a hard copy of this report will be made, until appraiser has received Chase’s written instruction thereto.

Appraiser’s Electronic Signature affixed
Emailacknwldgmnt060302
P.S. This is once in a looooong time that I thought, hey... it's a good one. So, I went and did most of my research before hand and......... BAM! Got canceled! :x :lol: Back to my old rule of not doing nuttin' before inspection. :p
 

Mike Simpson

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Let me get this straight - LSI takes a major chunk of the appraisal fee, and wants appraisers to sign a "hold harmless" contract in addition. They've already taken your health care, retirement, and vacation in the process of ordering an appraisal, for pities sake!

Does anybody else get the feeling the AMC's think appraiser's are stupid? What's next--pick up their kids and a loaf of bread?

It's our license...we hold all the cards--too many appraisers appear not to realize this fact. They can't do it (make the loan) without us!!! Let the chop shops work under these conditions and for peanuts. Then you can sit back and pick them off later on down the road.

-Mike
 

larryhaskell

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Nevada
Mike:

In some cases appraisers are stupid because if no one would sign those types of contracts the hold harmless clauses would be go away.
 

airphoto

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
Doesn't seem that complicated to me: They just put themselves out of the electronic transmission bidnez, that's all. Up your fee to cover costs of printing out and mailing/undernighting the report and tell 'em why they'll now have to wait for it, rather than receive it under the net ..
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
FYI these are the parts I edited OUT... lacking those probably damning clauses, the REST of it met my approval, and did not seem to me to be unreasonable...

For the parts below they can go to blazes :eek:nfire:

Appraiser is fully responsible for the integrity and authenticity of data and signatures transmitted electronically and will hold Chase harmless from and against any breach or failure of data integrity, signature authenticity, or breach of data security

.....

· At a minimum, the software contains the following security measures:
· Identifies transmission errors during the transmission process, and
· Confirms date, time and quantity of data transmitted by Appraiser and confirms the transmission was received by Chase. and

....

Appraiser agrees that no such subsequent transmission will result in additional fees billed to Chase, unless agreed to by Chase before said subsequent transmission.
· No duplicate transmission of this report will be made and

And I thought it pretty SLIMY to add this in AFTER I completed the work... :evil:
 

Carnivore

Elite Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
I thought there was a group, company or AMC out there handling reports for something like $5.00 for every per report you transmit. I also heard this same group is data mining. Do you suppose this might have something to do with that. Also, if it cost $5.00 busks to send does that mean its %.00 bucks every time you send a correction?

This stinks, I am glad that I dont do business with them.
 
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