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One Word Can Make All The Difference

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Fnbpos

Sophomore Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
In the Fannie Mae Appraiser Update "Appraiser Tips" one will find the following:

"Knowing the difference: If the current use of a property is not allowable within the property’s specific zoning district, the use is considered illegal and ineligible for delivery to Fannie Mae. However, the mere absence of a building permit does render the property ineligible for delivery and only requires the appraiser to comment on the quality and appearance of the work and its impact on the market value."

Is the sentence " the mere absence of a building permit does render the property ineligible" MISSING the word "NOT".... as in "DOES NOT"

Anyone ??
 

jay trotta

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
Welcome to DC where the American language can mean anything you want it to be:argue:

Let the Lender decide and have them provide you with a supportive document, on the writers letterhead; thus, a get out of jail Free card will have been provided, under the monopoly rules of engagement.
 

AMF13

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
It certainly appears it should say does not.
But you don't want to assume on something like that. It seems obvious, but might make an Azz out of U and Me. The things you remember years after college is done. :peace:
 

Mike Kennedy

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New York
Highest and Best Use Analysis - Working RE Magazine
www.workingre.com/highest-best-use-analysis-2/
The Fifth Edition of The Dictionary of Real Estate Appraisal by the Appraisal Institute defines highest and best use as: The reasonably probable and legal use of vacant land or an improved property that is physically possible, appropriately supported, financially feasible and that results in the highest value. Most textbooks ...


A use must meet four criteria as of an Effective Date of Appraisal as follows:
  1. Physically Possible
  2. Legally Permissible
  3. Financially Feasible
  4. Maximally Productive.

https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/selling/b2/3/01.html
safe, sound, and structurally secure (see B4-1.3-06, Property Condition and Quality of Construction of the Improvements);

the highest and best use of the property as improved (or as proposed per plans and specifications), and the use of the property must be legal or legal non-conforming use (see B4-1.3-04, Site Section of the Appraisal Report);
 
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Sid Holderly

Senior Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Indiana
Lets start a bigger can of worms. In this area, permits are not tied to zoning. Permits are only monitored for new construction and additions/major changes. If it is not new or under construction, you are not likely going to find a permit. After the new construction gets on the tax rolls (1 to 2 years after the construction permit) the old permits are stored in boxes in the County Court House Basement with little labeling, they are not available on-line. The lack of a permit when noticed is a small fine, insignificant unless a major setback infraction. Not following permit instructions gets more owners & buildings in trouble. The permits are there to control builders and increase tax base.

For an older home with an addition added a few years ago the likely odds of finding a permit are slime and if a much older addition nil.

So, in most cases, any older house is legal nonconforming because zoning requirements have changed. If you call the County they say the current use is legal.

Lack of a permit does not make the zoning use illegal.
 

J Grant

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Dec 9, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
What is allowable under Zoning (legal use) and what is permit granted have always been two separate concerns in the appraisal, the problem was the word "permitted", which seems to imply legal use or a building permit. I never had a problem distinguishing the meanings but it seems to have had caused confusion for at least a few appraisers.

A property can have an illegal zoning use yet have an addition that is permitted ( had a permit granted for the addition). A property can have a legal zoning use but a non permitted addition ( the addition never got a building permit). Not that hard to figure out . Fannie and FHA have guidelines about whether to include a non permitted space in living area sf of the dwelling, or how to treat it as a separate line item for contributory value when it is not included in living area sf (usually they want to see 2 comps with similar non permitted area and that it is market accepted ). It can come down to a judgement call on part of the appraiser about whether to include a non permitted area in the sf or how to treat it, whereas zoning is not a judgement call, a property use and structure are either allowed under zoning or not allowed. The exceptions with zoning are usually seen in older properties or atypical properties that are grandfathered in

Once it is established whether an area of home was permitted with permits or not, how to value it becomes the appraisal problem.
 

Mark K

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Indiana
The wording seems to preclude non-conforming properties, a category into which about half of the properties in this area fall, much like Sid's.

For those that don't seem to grasp the difference, permitted and permissible are not the same thing.
 

Mike Kennedy

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New York
White County, Indiana

ECTION 4. SCOPE. The provisions of this Code apply to the construction, alterations, structural repair, use, occupancy and additions to all buildings and structures other than mobile structures, and/or industrialized building systems certified under IC 22- 15-4 in White County.

SECTION 13. STOP ORDER. Whenever work is being done contrary to the provisions of this Code, the Director or Inspector may order the work stopped by notice in writing served on any person engaged in the doing or causing such work to be done, and any such persons shall forthwith stop such work until authorized by the Director or Inspector to proceed with the work.


SECTION 14. CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY. No final approval of construction for any building or structure erected or altered after the adoption of this Code shall be issued unless such building or structure was erected or altered in compliance with the provisions of this Code. Any commercial, industrial, public or residential building, principal or accessory, shall require a Certificate of Occupancy issued by the White County Building and Planning Department, unless expressly exempted elsewhere in this Ordinance.


Issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy shall not be construed as an approval of a violation of the provisions of this Code or of other ordinances of the jurisdiction. Certificates presuming to give authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this Code or other ordinances of the jurisdiction shall not be valid.


SECTION 15. VIOLATIONS. It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation, whether as owner, lessee, sub-lessee, or occupant, to erect, construct, enlarge, alter, repair, improve, remove, convert, demolish, equip, use, occupy or maintain any building or structure, permitted or inspected by Section 8 of this Code, other than fences in White County or cause or permit the same to be done, contrary to or in violation of the provisions of this Code.


It shall be unlawful to occupy any such building or structure unless a full, partial, or temporary certificate of occupancy has been issued authorized by the Building and Planning Department.


SECTION 16. RIGHT OF APPEAL. All persons shall have the right to appeal the Director’s or Inspector's decisions pertaining to provisions of this Code, first through the County Commissioners and then to the Fire Prevention and Building Safety Commission of Indiana in accordance with the provision of IC 22-13-2-7 or IC 4-21.5-3-7, as applicable.


SECTION 17. REMEDIES. The Director or Inspector may, in the name of the County Commissioners, bring actions in the Circuit or Superior Court of White County, for mandatory and injunctive relief in the enforcement of and to secure compliance with any order or orders, made by the Director or Inspector, and any such action for mandatory or injunctive relief may be joined with an action to recover the penalties provided for in this Code.


SECTION 18. PENALTIES. If any person, firm or corporation shall violate any of the provisions of this Code, or shall do any act prohibited herein, or shall fail to perform any duty lawfully enjoined, within the time prescribed by the Director or Inspector, or shall fail, neglect or refuse to obey any lawful order given by the Director or Inspector in connection with the provisions of this Code, for each violation, failure or refusal, such person, firm or corporation shall be fined in the sum of, not less than Thirty Dollars ($30.00) or more than Three Hundred Dollars ($300.00). Each day of such unlawful activity as is prohibited herein shall constitute a separate offense.


SECTION 19. EFFECTIVE DATE.

(A) This Code shall be in full force and effect after its approval by the Fire Prevention and Building Safety Commission of Indiana, and the adoption by the White County Commissioners, and publication as required by law.


(B) This Ordinance shall apply to:


(1) All Buildings or structures permitted under Section 7 of this Code after the effective date.


(2) All buildings or structures where construction or alteration has begun but not completed,


(3) Conversions of buildings and structures, or parts of them, from one occupancy classification to another, and


(4) The movement of buildings, structures, and equipment for the operation of buildings and structures.


(C) This Ordinance repeals or amends all other ordinances in conflict herewith, and repeals the aforesaid Ordinance No. 01-03-05-01 in its entirety.


SECTION 20. COMPLIANCE WITH OTHER ORDINANCES AND REGULATIONS.

No building permit shall be issued for the construction, extension, remodeling, alteration or structural repair of any proposed or existing building until the project has been checked for compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision Control Ordinance Certain construction projects may require a site plan for the project to be approved by the White County Surveyor, a driveway permit or letter to be issued by the State or White County Highway Departments, and/or a septic permit or letter to be issued by the White County Board of Health.


http://minutes.whitecountyindiana.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1041&Itemid=1106
 

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
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May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
"He was bent upon seeing her" is not the same as "The sight of her doubled him up"
 
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Mark K

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Indiana
Not sure exactly what Mr. Cut'n'Paste is attempting to prove other than his talents at searching Google.

There are 91 more counties and a lot of cities from which you can cut'n'paste if you want. I'm happy that you found White County's. Its nowhere near my area but its good to know that they too, like most other counties, have a zoning ordinance. If you actually have a point, I'm sure we'd all be thrilled to have you express it in your own words for a change.

I know...

Kill the Bullseye!
 
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