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Pet Urine and ???

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Jerry Ingmire

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
I recently inspected a home and the owner has a overzealous care for stray or homeless animals, to the tune of 6 + cats, 3 dogs, 2 birds and numerous fish. I love animals my self and have 3 dogs and a cat, so obviously it is not that I have a distaste for animals.
The problems are that the smell of animal urine made my nose plug and have severe congestive problems for the next couple of days. The basement area is devoted to the animals and is "unkept" in addition there is one room upstairs that has numerous litter boxes from which there is an overpowering aroma that could knock a buzzard off of a "crap wagon" at forty paces.
So here is the question, this type of condition will have an affect to the value of the property if the property is marketed in the current condition. Is it an appraiser's positiion to report this type of condition or should you as suggested by the client not mention this at all as this is particular to this user?

I know what I feel, and I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but in some ways isn't there a responsilbity to the money??

Awaiting your input...

Jerry
 

Blue1

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
I don't believe that a person's lifestyle is ethical to mention on an appraisal report unless that lifestyle impacts the property in some way, for instance: I had one assignment where the owner had a dog that urinated on one corner of an interior wall and it appeared that it had been going on for some time. The wall was stained yellow, stunk and the wall board was soaked and degraded as well as the carpet below. I conditioned the appraisal to have it inspected and repaired.

If it's just a mattter of cat-boxes with no impact on the structure or improvements, then I would say you have no need to report it. BUT.....be very careful and disclose ANY adverse condiitons affecting the improvments.....
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
That's a tough one.

When I run into something like this I'll read the Definition of Market Value - again:

The most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller, each acting prudently, knowledgeably and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus.

Implicit in this definition is the consummation of a sale as of a specified date and the passing of title from seller to buyer under conditions whereby: (1) buyer and seller are typically motivated; (2) both parties are well informed or well advised, and each acting in what he considers his own best interest; (3) a reasonable time is allowed for exposure in the open market; (4) payment is made in terms of cash in U.S. dollars or in terms of financial arrangements comparable thereto; and (5) the price represents the normal consideration for the property sold unaffected by special or creative financing or sales concessions* granted by anyone associated with the sale.


*Adjustments to the comparables must be made for special or creative financing or sales concessions. No adjustments are necessary for those costs which are normally paid by sellers as a result of tradition or law in a market area; these costs are readily identifiable since the seller pays these costs in virtually all sales transactions. Special or creative financing adjustment can be made to the comparable property by comparisons to financing terms offered by a third party institutional lender that is not already involved in the property or transaction. Any adjustment should not be calculated on a mechanical dollar for dollar cost of the financing or concession but the dollar amount of any adjustment should approximate the market’s reaction to the financing or concessions based on the appraiser’s judgement.

(From Fannie Mae Form 1004B 6-93 Appraisal Form)

Then, I stand back and think of myself as a potential buyer of that property. What would I deduct for that current and existing condition? How much do I figure it's going to cost to do what I believe would need to be done to reasonably clean this up so that I or the majority of people would live in it?

With what you have explained, I would make a condition adjustment for 'As Is'. I don't believe any 'typical' buyer would overlook this and if anything, they will be thinking of at least replacing almost all floor coverings and painting.
 

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
I agree that the typical buyer will want it fixed. I would aver that the cost to install new floor covering and repaint any stained walls is a minimum deduction....In Manf. Homes, I have seen such conditions where the urine soaked into the subflooring and simply could not be removed entirely. Good warm humid day...faint whiff of cat pee...yuck. Shampooing only brings the odor to the surface of the floor.
 

Roger

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Missouri
I've seen at least one case where the pet urine had soaked through the carpet, into the subfloor.

The urine smell came back, even after the installation of new floor coverings. The only cure was to tear out and replace the plywood subfloor, a costly repair.

I too, have been asked to remove comments on pet odor, but will not take them out of a report. I never know how much it will cost to cure.
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Gotta agree with the 3 above, I disclose it. I believe that a typical buyer would also balk at such a problem, and an adjustment on the cost to cure is reasonable. It is a market influence, and I report any FACTS that, in my opinion, are a market influence. Even if the buyer is an animal lover, their animals, or themselves, would not likely want to live with someone else's pee. Like Roger said, if it is totally soaked, removing the soaked flooring, sub-flooring and wall board is the only cure...... can cost some bucks.

Come to think of it, this could be kinda similar to "smokers" homes. When I have shown a "smokers" home to non-smokers, they turn around and run out the front door. But, it is easier to find another smoker buyer than it is to find another Animaniac that wants to live in pee.
 

David S. Roberson

Senior Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Tennessee
I did one this past summer, a manny fac turd home that belonged to a Medical Doctor who had 12 dogs, 8 cats, and 5 birds INSIDE the house. I know how many because I made it a point to count them all. At least 20 more dogs outside the house. This place really stank. It was just plain awful. And even though all floor coverings were roll vinyl, you could tell the urine went well into the subfloor. So I adjusted for all new floor coverings and treating the subfloor with Kilz or a similar sealant after an appropriate "drying-out" period. The Doctor called me back madder than a wet hen (which I'm surprised he didn't have in there as well), but at least I won't have to replace all this stuff if it were to come back on me!
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Sometimes, the truth hurts. They really do not expect a potential buyer to overlook something like that, why on earth would they expect the appraiser to?
 

Dee Dee

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
This thread reminds me of a home we purchased when my boys were rug rat sized, about 15 years ago. The house had fairly new carpet, and on the surface everything looked clean and almost new. We viewed and purchased the house during the winter months, and it wasn't until spring when the sun started warming up the carpets near some large windows that we started noticing that eye-watering kitty smell. Pulled up the carpet to find that the HO had packed a good 1/4" of baking soda type deodorizer underneath in an attempt to disguise the stench. Had to pull out most of the carpet on the main level and decided to go to small claims court.

The judge determined that, although we had purchased the home 'as is', the seller had deliberately tried to hide a defect, so he ruled in our favor and the seller had to pay us an amount that nearly covered the cost of new carpet of a similar quality, close to $1000 at the time. Never denying that she was guilty of trying to hide the ruined carpet, the previous homeowner was mad as h*ll about it. Her argument was that the purchase contract clearly stated that we were buying the home 'as is' and that everyone knows that the 'buyer should beware'.
Thank goodness the judge saw it our way!
 

jtrotta

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
having been round the planet a while, there are some things we won't tolerate; animal crapola is a major drawback, if I git a slight wifffffff of an animal - I'm outta there and immediately call the Lender and tell them to find somebody else.

got sued one time when in the RE portion of the biz, and although it was the most stupid encounter I ever had (some idiot dumped the cat box-clean up guy) and we got nailed. it cost me $300 and the company $300 to git rid of this looser. the paper work went on for months before we had ta pay, so it was not only the money; it was time consuming also.

8)
 
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