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Previous Mentor Refusing To Provide Work Samples.

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Greg Brinkley

Freshman Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
Hello everyone. This is my first post as I just recently joined the board. I am currently a licensed trainee in Virginia with roughly 2200 hours experience. I'm just waiting for a few months when I can submit for my license.

Here is my problem. The first appraiser I worked for has thus far refused to provide me with signed copies of the work I did for him. I was basically thrown into the mix from the beginning and was doing the inspections and the whole report from day number two. He also has his shop set up in a way that obviously is not complying with USPAP or state regulations. As I learned more and more and became aware of different things, I sought a new mentor that did things the correct way. It is my belief that he thinks if he gives me the reports, it may become apparent what he is doing. He signs every appraisal as the appraiser but I would put my name on the report as having provided professional assistance. I now believe my name was always removed during the review process which by the way was not done by him or a licensed appraiser. This is why I believe he refuses my repeated attempts to have him send me 7 or 8 examples of my work. I have a copy of every report I did for him but they are not signed.

I have contacted the state real estate board and was told to continue trying but if he never complied to include a letter explaining the situation in lieu of the sample appraisals and that someone from the complaint department would take it up with him. I haven't told him as of yet that I have taken this step. I am just wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience or could offer any additional advice. I'm sure I will get many responses telling me to turn him in and I have thought about it, but how will that affect me? I have close to 1500 experience hours with him and would hate to lose them. What really stinks is that there are several other very good trainees who are in my same position and a few of them still work for him. What advice can you give me on how to handle the situation? Should I just forget those experience hours and be pissed at myself for working for him for soo long? If I don't get credit for those hours, it probably means an extra year as a trainee. I do feel some sense of obligation to make the state aware of his doings and I am struggling with my next move. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Wow.

You're in a very nasty situation! Unfortunately, many other trainees around the nation are in the same boat. There ought to be a specific class included in the initial training classes to address this. What a mess this profession is in!

Call and talk to your state board again. I just don't know what else to tell you to do. Maybe Frank Gregoire will respond to this and can give some suggestions. Whatever else happens, your past 'supervisor' needs to lose his license!!!
 

Patti Jury

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Colorado
Wow.. is right! Good luck!

I would look at it this way.. sounds to me like you were in a sweat shop situation.. What do you have to lose at this point.. If you turn him in .. you may get your hours.. if you don't .. you won't anyway!
He is obligated to keep this files/your files for a number of years 5-7 at least.. so if he cannot produce them he is in violation of USPAP..etc..

My advice.. Maybe he needs his clocked cleaned..if not by you than by your Appraisal Board

It will also be a great test to see how Strong your State Board is! Do they really do their jobs?

Turn him in.. then snag his clients.. on ethical principal! :rofl:

P.S.

Welcome to this board.. it is a wealth of information! And always remember to thank our host Wayne!
 

Frederick R. Ruffell

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Greg, Welcome to the forum

You really have nothing to loose. submit your log, hours and samples signed or not along with the letter. Let the chips fall where they may. I must commend you on your ethics. :beer:
 

wyecoyote

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Gvmt Agency, FNMA, HUD, VA etc.
State
Washington
Greg,

I agree with everyone else. Submit the samples unsigned with the letter to the state. Then sit back and see what happens. Worse case scenario they don't alow the credit for those reports.

Ryan
 

Phil Rice

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
A lot depends on your relationship with the previous mentor and how good a "read" you have on the situation.

Consider a talk (or a letter?) with this person, and explain that you are trying to get your license. With a little luck, he will understand. Try to get accross to him that you are not going to just quietly go away. If he will work with you, you both benefit. Make it clear that you are going to submit something to the state, and that if he will not provide you with signed copies of the sample reports, you are going to have to submit your copies, along with an explanation of what was going on, including your documentation and evidence of what kind of operation he has, and why you can't produce the signed copies.

Do not make any specific statements beyond that. Give him a list of reports that you want copies of and a specific deadline (2 weeks?). If after 2 weeks he has not responded, consider other ways to obtain a signed copy of at least one report that you worked on. You could contact the client or the homeowner, and see if they will give you a copy. The homeowner often (sometimes?) winds up with a copy of the finished product. Keep in mind if you start knocking on doors of homeowners, your mentor will find out, and he will not be happy about it.


If the mentor will not help you, submit what you have with an explanation that you attempted to get "signed" copies but the mentor (give his name) would not cooperate. My advice is to focus on your goal of getting your license. The goal is not to get the mentor in trouble. Do what you have to do to accomplish your goal.

If the mentor is truely "crooked", be prepared that he may start telling wooper lies and try to make it sound like this is all your fault. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
 

Phil Rice

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
Better advice:

Decide which reports you want to use and print them, and if you want your signature on them, sign them.
When you send the letter to your mentor, ask them to give you a copy of their file copy signed reports, or if they prefer, simply sign the enclosed copies which you have provided for their convenience. Make it as easy as possible for them to do what you want. It is to your advantage to be in control of what gets sent to the state.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Woah, Phil. Here in Florida, the report sent to the state for verification is supposed to be an exact duplicate of what was sent to the client of that report. I would strongly advise a full disclosure to your state board of exactly what has happened.
 

Phil Rice

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
There are many details that I do not know, so my advice will have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I am not aware of any requirement that the report sent to the state must be an exact duplicate of the client copy. Of course, each state could have their own (unique?) requirements. Pam, if you can give me a cite, I would be interested in reading the Florida rule.

If the appraisal is legit (ie, you did the appraisal), and factual, there is no problem (as far as I know) with correcting an error (for example) before sending to the state, as long as the supervisor signs the corrected copy. Another example, the client has a rule that says supervisor must sign as the appraiser. Give them an appraisal with supervisor signature on the left side, and make another copy for the file with trainee signature on left and supervisor on the right. I do not see anything wrong with that. The critical part is that the state gets an exact copy of what the supervisor signs.

If there is any doubt, read the rules and/or call the state and ask the question. If you think it is appropriate, disclose that the reports submitted are reproductions and not exact copies of what was given to the client. By all means, know the rules and follow them in good faith. But don't make it harder than necessary.
 

Chris Harrison

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Utah
Greg,

If you have copies of the work YOU did weather they are signed by your mentor or not you have met your requirements! I’m not aware of any requirement that states you should have a copy of the final product given to a “client”. I’ve never even heard of a state requiring a sample of each type of appraisal ie: form single family residential, 2-4 multi family, land, manufactured home, condo, PUD, narrative, complete, limited, self contained, summary or restricted. Sad but true!!! I know several appraisers that have been in the business for over 20 years that have never done a complete self contained appraisal of any type.

I recommend that you submit your work product, appraisal log and the letter that explains why you do not have copies signed by your mentor. Your hours and the level of your present competency are the important issue. Your first 1500 hours could have been the worst training in the world but the state requirements don’t specify good training and bad training, just that you are competent by the time you apply for certification. It’s why we have many appraisers that become certified that have no clue how to complete a complex residential appraisal. If it can’t be put on a form and filled in with canned statements they are lost in a cesspool of incompetence.

I have heard some states require 400-500 "completed" appraisals during the training period to verify the required hours, they don’t specify that they be signed by a mentor, presented to a client or even used for any purpose other than training. 12 years ago, when I started out, my first 20 appraisals were done for training purposes only. My first 1004 took 2 weeks to get final approval by my mentor and was never used in a client/appraiser transaction.

Honesty and integrity can’t be taught in 2000 hours and submitting the facts as they are is what this business is all about! Again I say submit what you have and let the chips fall where they may.

If a state is requiring appraisals presented to a "client", I too would like to see the statute cited.

Just my .02

Chris
 
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