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Selling Agent, Listing Agent and MLS says but Court House says?

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Ray Miller

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
Selling agent no longer working for the firm that sold.

Called both the listing agent and the selling agent and got the same story from them. The subject listed at $189,900 and sold for $159,900 last February 2, 2007 after being on the market for 289 days according to listing agent, selling agent and MLS.

Court house says and recheck the data that the transfer fee was $433.20 which means that the subject sold for $144,400 on that date.

The HUD per real estate agent says $159,900.

What to do in a case like this????
 

Lawrence R.

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
South Carolina
Can you search public records for the mortgage? It may shed some light also...if you can find out that mortgage was a 95 percenter, you can back into the sales price?

Just a thought...
 

Ray Miller

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
Yep, just did and this is what I found out:

The MLS shows that it was sale but it was a lease/option for them to buy it at $159,900 and that is what the MLS shows, but by the time they decided to excuate the option to by the owner reduce the price to $144,400 and that is what they sold it for.

So the property in the course of excuating the opitiion took a $44,500 negitive hit.

Got to love MLS data.

Just like the house I bought they for got to add the other 10 acres. I bought 20 acres instead of the 10 that was listed. But no one ever changed the MLS to reflect that. It bosted the value of my property $60,000. Then other appraisals were based on that in our area for the first year or so after we closed. Talk about inflation at 31% above market. If skippie was doing appraisals then and not the market research how many homes in the area were increase because of the information listed in MLS and skippie using the highest sale?
 

Michael Martin

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Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Hampshire
I have run into the same problem recently. From everything I could gather the realtor was bumping up the sale price on MLS to justify his current list prices which contradicted public record. Unless you can prove the higher price from some other source, I would use the lower price and explain in report.
 

Lawrence R.

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
South Carolina
Yep, just did and this is what I found out:

The MLS shows that it was sale but it was a lease/option for them to buy it at $159,900 and that is what the MLS shows, but by the time they decided to excuate the option to by the owner reduce the price to $144,400 and that is what they sold it for.

So the property in the course of excuating the opitiion took a $44,500 negitive hit.

Got to love MLS data.

Just like the house I bought they for got to add the other 10 acres. I bought 20 acres instead of the 10 that was listed. But no one ever changed the MLS to reflect that. It bosted the value of my property $60,000. Then other appraisals were based on that in our area for the first year or so after we closed. Talk about inflation at 31% above market. If skippie was doing appraisals then and not the market research how many homes in the area were increase because of the information listed in MLS and skippie using the highest sale?

Good detective work Ray, now tell me again how people can appraise 6 or 7 a day?

Some appraisers have never even SEEN a records room or a clerk of court's office.
 

Ray Miller

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
Good detective work Ray, now tell me again how people can appraise 6 or 7 a day?

Some appraisers have never even SEEN a records room or a clerk of court's office.


Add to that for $175 or less per appraisal?
 

hglenbetts

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Michigan
Me too

There must be an epidemic.
Here's what I had today:
MLS = $325,000
Public record = $70,000. (3 year old builder's model, never lived in, only recorded land value on deed!!)
The "property transfer affidavit" stated $290,000 mortgage and $42,000 cash. = $332,000.

By the way, List price was $319,900 with no seller concessions noted. 192 DOM...Luckily, I had about 8 other comps to choose from.m2:
 

Mike Boyd

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
California
Transfer tax is based on the cash paid through escrow. A sale for $100,000 where an existing $50,000 loan was assumed by the buyer would only show $50,000 cash through escrow and the transfer tax would be based on $50,000. Some tax records are based on a form filled out by the buyer a month or more after closing. Whatevef the borrower states he paid for it is what gets reported as the sales price.

Public records often do not tell the whole story.
 

Lawrence R.

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
South Carolina
Transfer tax is based on the cash paid through escrow. A sale for $100,000 where an existing $50,000 loan was assumed by the buyer would only show $50,000 cash through escrow and the transfer tax would be based on $50,000. Some tax records are based on a form filled out by the buyer a month or more after closing. Whatevef the borrower states he paid for it is what gets reported as the sales price.

Public records often do not tell the whole story.

I would tend to agree with you, but on typical transactions they can...but that is why I told Ray to research the mortgage documents instead. It isn't a reliable source, but in absence of other reliable sources it could have confirmed one or ruled one out. Sale prices conflict one says 100 and one says 135, and the mortgage is for 120? I say you err on the side of the 135. That's all.

And it would be just as accurate to say that MLS documents often do not tell the whole story. At least in the courthouse is is procedural error, and not attempts at fraud that cause the discrepencies.
 
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