• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Societies, CE Lite, Disappearing Groups

Status
Not open for further replies.

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
AI, ASA, ASFMRA, & NA(IFA) seem to either have limited membership or are a mere shadow of their former selves. Chapters found footing difficult outside large metro areas. We tried a chapter of NAIFA in NWA years ago and few appraisers wanted to join because of the fee. Compared to many professional groups they were right. Even when groups were similar in size. And what would the NAR look like without the MLS monopoly?

Our chapter failed and I united with the Pryor Creek-Claremore NE Oklahoma chapter covering Tulsa as well. My last meeting I drove 70 miles and 3 members attended. The speaker had driven 40 miles to talk to our pitiful crowd. I think at the time the chapter boosted about 70 members including a past and the sitting Pres. of NAIFA (J. Wilkerson).

Meanwhile our independent NWA group garnered about 70 members at peak, charged $25/yr dues during its entire life, and offered cheap CE. I even taught a few classes free to bolster our cash flow. Even so, except USPAP, it was hard to draw a dozen students. Some caterwauling that they had conflicts, etc. So we tried breaking up classes for night, etc. Same issue. Most wanted online, etc despite our large discount. One member was USPAP instructor and one year TAF delivered books late, we'd scheduled the class early but he got the materials only the day before. So his presentation was halting. Some members complained and refused to come to the next class which he handled much better because TAF got it to him early.

But in this nigh 20 years a core group, some now dead or retired, have pretty much did it all. Membership has fell despite USPAP still required in person. No one wants to attend meetings (again I travel further than most RT 50miles or more). No one wants to step up to the plate.

Today we had a little kumbaya meeting. We will call a meet and decide if we shut the door or if someone new wants to come on board, perhaps with a single annual meeting with speakers and USPAP and nothing else...

Then everyone can do online CE or their assistant can do it in the comfort of the rocking chair. After all if too lazy to drive your comps, why take your own CE? Who is going to catch you? Got your webcam on?

With the core cadre gone I bet a few malcontents will complain but to whom?:)
 
Last edited:

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
Above I expounded upon the difficulty of keeping not only expensive chapters to national societies, but even having low cost local groups to interact with fellow appraisers.
Today we had a little kumbaya meeting. We will call a meet and decide if we shut the door or if someone new wants to come on board, perhaps with a single annual meeting with speakers and USPAP and nothing else...

Last night I attended a meeting in Ft. Smith, 70 miles away. It is the Ft. Smith Geological Society. There were over 50 geologists represented, mostly petroleum geologists, a couple of engineering geologists, and among them were geology students from two universities...about 15 or so. The speaker was a geologist from Oklahoma City. There is one rig running in the state. The industry is at dead slow. Yet they could muster such a meeting and do so for $20/yr membership. In fact, a recent field trip netted the group over $8,000, drawing people from several states, and which half the profit is to be shared with the Univ. of Arkansas geology dept. and our separate scholarship fund is over $6000 strong to boot.

Our local appraiser group can barely scrape up $25 a year, no one shows up except for a discounted class that SAVES them more than the annual membership fee and you can't get 10 people to a meeting nor find anyone willing to sit on the board let alone serve as secretary or president. What is it about appraisers that we are the worst cats to herd? Doesn't this really go into the heart of the argument about "professionalism" and appraising? If you cannot support and interact with fellow appraisers how do you expect them to unite against low fees, bad regulations or cleaning up incompetent appraisers?
 

graindart

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Montana
I guess I'd question what a local group's intended purpose is.

If the intended purpose is social, I've already got friends & family.

If the intended purpose is CE, I'd much rather sit in my underwear at home staring at a screen. Online I have a choice of possibly hundreds of different courses. I might even find one interesting enough to hold my attention and learn something. Live seminars come along every year or two here and are rarely on a subject that would interest me. Also, an 8 hour live CE course here usually consists of 1 hour of breaks, lunch, 3 hours of off-topic complaining, and a couple hours of content (much of which is a repeat of already known data).

If the intended purpose is building a network of other professionals in the field that you can rely on for help and to consult with on tough assignments, I'd be initially interested. However the problem for many appraisers that this would interest is the lack of professionalism they see when they look at their local peers, warranted or not.

I have no experience with participants in the field of geology. Based on a wild guess, I'd say they can get along together and respect each other because they don't review each other's daily work. It's possible that the only review they have of each other's work is based on lengthy reports that may have taken weeks / months to write. If you've got weeks / months to research and write something you know is going to be published / critiqued, I'm guessing you put lot more time and effort into it and make sure everything is double / triple checked. The reports look great and it's easy to see them as professional. On the other hand, if they churned out several reports each and every week, I'm guessing the quality of the reports would be much less and peers would find various errors / omissions with the reports that might lead to them questioning how professional that person really is.

This is where appraisers can have issues with others in their profession. Many research and write up several reports per week. They're obviously not of the same caliber reports that would be possible if given weeks / months to research / write each report. Now take the very worst of those daily reports and give them to the appraiser's peers to review. After reviewing a few reports from an appraiser, the reviewer has often formulated an opinion on that person. Once a review appraiser has been around for awhile, they've seen many of the worst reports from several of their peers. It's much harder to think of their peers as professional when they keep seeing stupid mistakes, poor supporting documentation, faulty processes, or supposed intentional omissions. If an appraiser doesn't see their peers as professionals, why would they want to rely on them for help or consult with them on tough assignments?
 

AMF13

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Update your tune. Dump Kumbaya. :shrug:

These groups are, or are at risk for, becoming obsolete.
Gotta keep up with the times, and this dancing guy. :dancefool:

Or, go down with the ship.
Yeah, see ya in Davy Jones locker. :peace:
 

Red Flint

Member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Professional Status
General Public
State
Michigan
AI, ASA, ASFMRA, & NA(IFA) seem to either have limited membership or are a mere shadow of their former selves.


No, I don’t think so, there has been consolidation and changes, but each designated society has foundational strength.



Designated appraisers already pay membership fees, so it is worthwhile to find time for attendance at meetings or conferences. This usually is a worthwhile outing to network and learn. Advantages to AI is a good calendar of events, though may have to travel to more populated areas in your state. Great way to dig deep into appraisal profession. ASA also has benefits to broaden your field into equipment, machinery and business valuation, though less meetings and lighter penetration to most appraisers. There is a career suit for many in the rural and ag worlds through ASFMRA.



These societies also lobby on the appraiser’s behalf, look carefully at letters submitted to various governing organizations, and you will commonly see AI and ASFMRA be on common supportive ground, and other groups like ASA submitting briefs on support for appraiser issues.



There are tremendous changes in the appraisal development and reporting process, and business arrangements, in at least the last ten years, due to technology and lender changes (see Quicken growth). Having a place to meet and share your membership investment is good for business, and I think there is future stability in these organizations, although there could be more consolidation and cost-cutting, especially since continuing education growth has shifted to online offerings compared to classroom settings. I still like a class now and then to glean experience info from instructors or other students, and I can wear my magic underwear.
 

jay trotta

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
"T", I have seen 1 or 2 appraisers over the past few years in the town halls I travel to; to me this is how you "verify" sale data, as it is the factual record.
Prior to 2007, I would run into a bunch of people, actively in pursuit of data.

I'm sure the Geologists get Paid what they seek, without anyone skimming their fee and it would appear they have an "Interest" in their craft/profession. Sometimes you get what you pay for and the end result, rears its ugly head every now & then.
 

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
I don’t think so
ASFMRA is older than AI...it was never large, AI is actully combined and I know it has fewer members IFA went in debt and lost so much money it had to bill members for extra money, and sold a debt free building in St. Louis. These are smaller than in the past. Local chapters, affiliated or not, seem to have much less attendance. We have a healthy economy but attendance has dwindled from 40 or so.

I'm sure the Geologists get Paid what they seek, without anyone skimming their fee and it would appear they have an "Interest" in their craft/profession
Some are salaried but independent geologists are paid by quote on time . If prospecting they get over-riding royalties but in tough times they are expected to buy a piece of a well they propose and not only make no money if dry, plus are stuck with their part of the working interest. So they don't prosper in times of low prices. But still they socialize with their peers, a much higher percent attend than do appraisers.
 

George Hatch

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
The professional orgs had their heyday back when it was popular for people to join garden clubs, local lodges, rotary club, etc. They served a social function.

Nowadays most people just watch cable TV or YouTube videos after dinner. If they know all their neighbors it's only because they's out in the sticks and they don't have many neighbors.


What you're seeing on this forum is about as social as appraisers get these days.
 

Mike Garrett RAA

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
Our local appraisers group (CAREA.net) has shown a slight decrease in membership over the last couple of years mainly due to fewer and fewer people entering the profession. This past year we had about 90 members. At the peak we had almost 200 members. I was partly responsible for that because I was teaching the 75 hour pre-license course and encouraged my students to join so that they could network with appraisers willing to take on trainees. It was typical to have 20 to 25 students twice a year.

The cost of membership is $125 a year which includes 6 dinner meeting with 2 hours of CE credit. We also offer an annual USPAP update 7 hour class for $165. Very few have suggested it's too expensive to be a member.
 

hastalavista

Elite Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
What you're seeing on this forum is about as social as appraisers get these days.

I disagree.
One organization I'm a member of (REAA) has 7-9 meetings a year per chapter; there are 4 chapters I'm aware of; meeting size varies from the smallest chapter (maybe 10-members) to the largest chapter (50+). These are primarily residential appraisers very engaged in their local markets, networking, and obtaining live CE in person. All the meetings I've attended have a lunch or dinner component. My local chapter throws an end-of-year party that may have a speaker, but is social in nature.

The other organization (AI, NorCal Chapter), along with their branch meetings, has five well-attended and popular events every year: Litigation Conference (San Mateo County), Spring Conference (Modesto, CA), Residential Symposium (SF Bay Area), Fall Conference (San Francisco), Commercial Symposium (SF Bay Area). In addition, we have a Vineyard Seminar in Napa that alternates every other year. Each event has a social afterwards. 500 to 900+ attendees per year.

On line education has certainly cut into the ability of the organizations to attract attendance to events. But both of the organizations I cited are adapting and developing courses/events that are more localized in nature/market and are hard for the national on-line courses to match.

There will always be a contingent (maybe the majority) of appraises who do not want to network or socialize even if CE is offered as part of the package. And, for a fact, areas where there are a larger concentration of appraisers make it easier to form/join professional development organizations where "live" attendance is a bonus.

Many come to this forum and participate (or lurk) because they have no other source to access that brings together a lot of appraisers to discuss appraisal issues of the day. Just think how much more one could get out of a "forum" if one had the opportunity to be live with other appraisers rather than on-line (for sure, the discussions would be much more cordial! :rof:).

The profession is changing. This is true for the individual appraiser as it is true for the appraiser organizations. But just as rumors of the death of the appraiser are premature, so too the death of professional appraisal organizations. However, like the individual appraiser, if the organizations are to sustain themselves and thrive, they will need to be more flexible (especially the larger organizations) in adapting to the changes and find better ways to create tangible benefits associated with their membership*.

*along that line, I thought it extremely interesting that in the recent residential fee appraisal survey conducted by UNLV for the State of Nevada, a combined 38% of residential mortgage-finance clients indicated that a professional designation makes a difference in their engagement selection (19%) or the fees they pay (19%). One-third of the pie (in this particular survey) is not a small slice. :cool:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Top

AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks