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States That Offer Provisional Licenses

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dezra

Sophomore Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Does anyone know which states offer Provisional Licenses that allow you to appraise, taking your life into your own hands, in the event you can't find a mentor? After how long, can it convert or can you petition for it to be converted to a full-fledged license? :yellowblack:
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Dezra,

If you find such a state, please klet us know so we can begin steps to put a stop to it.

People who are inexperienced in any field need to be supervised, trained, taught and mentored. The very reason we have so much shoddy appraisal work is due a lack of the items above.
 

Ghost Rider

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Professional Status
Banking/Mortgage Industry
State
Connecticut
CT has the provisional designation, but, there is nothing really to getting it - When I got mine, it was 75 hours of class work, then send in the certificates from the school with my check, and I was a provisional appraiser......I was not allowed to do any work, without a certified appraiser signing off on my reports. Also, it's not really a state issue, it's a lender issue. For example, a lot of the lenders I was working with would not accept my reports WITHOUT seeing that signature from a certified appraiser, either with the did, or did not inspect box marked.....
 

dezra

Sophomore Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
Bob:

I created this thread to find out if anyone knew of any states where a trainee could be granted a provisional license to appraise. There is one that I know of and that is Texas. If you do not like the fact that Texas allows this, then perhaps you could make it your cause.
 

dezra

Sophomore Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2002
MH Merriman:

Does CT have any special conditions whereby trainees can do appraisals without supervision, as Texas does? I'd prefer to train under a knowledgable mentor and we have not given up the hope of this happening, but I'm the type of person who likes to have all my options laid out and then pick what is going to work best. That's why we are wondering about this. :yellowblack:
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Texas has a Provisional License. You have to prove, i.e., letters of rejection, etc., that you can't get a mentor. However, they watch you like a hawk. So, if you want to go this route, you need an appraiser that will work with you even if they don't want to enter into a formal mentor/trainee relationship.

Roger
 

Mickey Stevens

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Dom. Republic
I have been very reluctant to jump into this discussion because I know I'm probably just making myself a target for criticism but here goes. I started with a provisional license and have mostly taught myself the profession. I just obtained my "State Licensed" level license last week. It took me a year and a half.

I started out working for a guy who had a provisional license (I later learned it had been revoked). He hired 3 of us and paid for our classes and licensing. I paid close attention in the USPAP class and figured out real soon that I needed to get away from this guy. I found myself without a job and with a provisional license. I set out to get work on my own. It was a little slow at first and I took another full time job for a couple of months. Of course as soon as I took that job the appraisals picked up and I worked about 70 or 80 hours a week for a couple of months. The appraisals seemed to be going well enough so I quit the other job and have been busy with appraisals since that time.

It hasn't been that hard to get business. A lot of companies have no problem with the provisional license. I have on occasion ran into a few mortgage brokers who were not familiar with the requirments of their lenders and I had to get a certified appraiser to sign off. This has only been on maybe 7 or 8 out of over 200 appraisals. (maybe not even that many, it may be more like 5 or 6, I'd have to back and count them up to be sure). I met an appraiser with many, many years experience in the USPAP class who has been great. He signed the appraisals I mentioned and wouldn't even let me pay him. I have also been able to call and ask him questions when I needed to. So the suggestion about having a relationship with another appraiser who can provide advice is good.

As far as the state watching you like a hawk. In Texas from what I understand they don't have the money or staff to watch anyone like a hawk. Actually, I wouldn't have minded if they had as long as it was in a way that might have provided some guidance and assistance. It is easy to screw up starting this way and I know this has happened to at least a couple of people who had provisional licenses. However, these people were committing outright fraud and had no intention of being ethical, honest appraisers. Even with outright fraud the board allowed them to voluntarily surrender their licenses, which allowed one of them to later obtain his real estate brokers license (because he could claim the appraiser's license hadn't been revoked).

Is this the best way to get into the profession? Probably not. I think it is better for most people to go through an apprenticeship and learn from someone else. I have a friend who was also going to work for the guy I mentioned before. When we found out what was going on there he went back into sales. He probably wouldn't have made it in this profession without someone to teach him. I hope he never reads this because I wouldn't want to offend him but the truth is he's just not smart enough. I think intelligence is a big factor in whether you can be successful starting out this way. I'm not trying to brag but I think one factor that has helped me be successful is that I have above average intelligence (I have the test scores to prove it).

I'm certainly not knocking experience and I know I have a lot to learn. However, what is involved in an appraisal? An appraisal involves collecting and analyzing data to reach an estimate of value based on that data. While experience is certainly going to make one better at almost anything, why can't this process be learned in a relatively short amount of time. If someone has an above average IQ I don't think it should take 2 years for them to be able to do a competent appraisal. As long as they collect the data and analyze it properly they should reach a sound conclusion. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not knocking the value of experience but do you think an underwriter would accept a statement in a report that said that based on the appraisers experience and knowledge of the nuances of the market the value estimate is $-______ even though the data indicates $_____. Of course not, the expeienced appraiser also relies on the data. Of course experience certainly does enhance ones ability to analyze the data. There are other professions that one is called on to make decisions with much more serious consequences than appraisers do that have much shorter training times.

I've worked hard in the last year and a half and tried to learn as much as I can. I have learned a lot from this forum. I've read additional books on appraising. I've studied every appraisal I can get my hands on. As far as the quality of my work, I've seen quite a few appraisals done by experienced, certified appraisers. I know this is going to upset some of you but I've even done reviews on a few. I would say that the quality of my work is better than more than half of these that I've seen. The ones that I feel are better I've learned from. One thing I've noticed more than anything is a lot of appraisers seem to be sloppy and lazy (at least there reports look that way). I think if one is intelligent, analyitical, thorough and dilligent one can learn to produce an appraisal at least equal to that of the average certified appraiser (based only on the reports I've seen) in less than 2 years. An inexperienced appraiser that is thorough and dilligent can produce a superior product to an experienced appraiser who is sloppy and lazy.

Anyway, I've probably said enough. I'll just add that I've worked hard to learn the profession and have tried to be honest and ethical so don't beat up on me too bad. So here we go....shoot.
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
No shots fired from me. You may certainly be the exception to the rule.

In MOST cases, if I need my car repaired, teeth fixed, taxes prepared, a lawsuit filed, home built, meal prepared.....(you name it), I will go with the man or woman who has gone thru the normal, typical and usual steps to obtain their expertise.

I would not very often choose a "self taught expert" . It might happen, it could happen...it ain't likely to happen.
 

Dee Dee

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Colorado
Hi Mickey,

I have a couple of questions for you.

Were you able to secure E&O insurance with a provisional license?

I believe it's mandatory now that you are supposed to disclose your license level on the signature portion of your appraisals....what do you put on yours? Do you tell your clients up front about your provisional license or do you just do the work and hope they don't ask?

Just curious....I've never bumped into someone who is has been able to find any work without going through the mentor route.
 

Mickey Stevens

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Dom. Republic
Texas doesn't require E&O Insurance. I did look into when I first started and would have been able to get it....I don't remember the company but it was relatively inexpensive.

As far as the bottom of the report....anywhere I put my license # it always had a -P after it indicating provisional.

If someone asks about my license level I tell them. The law says I can legally do the appraisal so unless they ask I don't tell them. I have had the few instances I mentioned where mortgage brokers didn't know their lenders required 2 years experience but I don't think it would have mattered if I'd told them ahead of time. They just didn't know what their lenders required. It seems in almost all of these cases they said something like "it's a good appraisal" or "there's nothing wrong with the appraisal" but we need someone with two years experience to sign it. Like I said this has only happened maybe 5 to 7 times out of over 200.

I have some good clients who are pleased with my work and have no problem with my license level or experience. The final product they get speaks for itself. The guys I mentioned that lost their licenses also had no trouble finding work but they were going about it in a different way (i.e. number hitters).

One thing that may have helped me is I work in rural areas that have few appraisers. Sometimes they are lucky to find an appraiser in these areas let alone one that can give them a decent turnaround time. I heard somewhere that the intent of the provisional license was to provide more appraisers in rural areas.

A few months ago I did a review of an appraisal done by an experienced, certified appraiser. There were several problems with the appraisal and I thought it was about $50,000 to high. The review was very thorough and the underwriter complemented me on it. Then they asked me to go and do a full appraisal on the property. They were so impressed with the review they valued my opinion over the experienced, certified appraiser. I think the quality of my work has been a key factor.

I even occasionally have to turn down work because I am too busy. Have turned down several this month.
 
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