• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Stumped again

Status
Not open for further replies.

Terrel L. Shields

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
Estate appraisal. Garden variety 2,200 SF house, 1 1/2 sty and basement on hillside. Only has one unusual feature. ......a theatre tracker organ. The console sits in the living room, and there is a 2 story tall, 15 x 15 room containing the pipes. Wood pipes, brass pipes, 6" pipes, 16' pipes. Incredible. Seems the owner was an organist and an electrical engineer. This came out of a Ft. Smith Theatre and is a Kilgen and Son of St. Louis console, likely from the mid to late 20s.

I don't even know where to start. My client-attorney who is the nephew of the deceased. He asked when I went to pick up the key if I knew how to play the organ...
 

airphoto

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
Either personal property/furnishings or a non-contributing superadequacy, sounds like to me .. but, interesting, isn't it?
 

Judy Whitehead (Florida)

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
This would appear to me to be a "super adequacy" or something similar. Perhaps Functional depreciation (taking up space that could be used for TV watching, etc.) Seriously, if the market wanted huge organs in the house, then you would see more of them built. I think that I would somehow try to arrive at a price to convert back to a normal house by removing the organ. Perhaps the organ could then be marketed separately by the estate. It certainly sounds like it has value.

My sister's church just had to buy a new organ and they are expensive. There is also a brisk market for them, although the older ones take up so much more space than the newer ones do. Electronics has hit the organ industry, too. By the way, I learned to play an organ just like that one at my church when I was a teenager - I could hardly reach the pedals.
 

George Hatch

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Nope, I reckon this is not an extra, but rather a cost to cure. Typical buyer would not only not pay anything extra, but they'd have to consider the cost to remove it and cover up the hole. They may or may not be able to recover their cost to cure by selling it, but good luck on that.


George Hatch
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
Gotta agree with the above. Unless......... it could be converted into a fly by night wedding chapel. But then you would have a multiple use property. Ooohh man, can hear the UW calls now!! :lol:
 

Karl

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Arizona
If it were going to a Mortgage Co. the underwriter would probablly just ask U if you could just not mention it. Had one call today that wanted me to change the name of where the people live cause they like the name of the area the people used better. YES!! This is TRUE.
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
I agree with George. The organ is personalty (unless this is a church - Ha, Ha). Seriously, I would look at the cost to remove and restore the space. The cost to remove would be part of the sale of the organ so that shouldn't be an issue.

Roger
 

Terrel L. Shields

Thread Starter
Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
But that does not give it an as is value. Further, the console is relatively mobile, but the entire 15' x 15' x 18' 3 wall addition was built exclusively to house the organ.... Once the pipes are dismantled the floor studs are there for the second floor, lay some flooring, floor covering, redo the walls and ceiling, rewire, etc. and you have two 15 x 15 rooms. One off the walk out basement and one on the main level. Or....you could do nothing, or treat the addition as storage areas. I think you would only compound the functional obsolescence by remodeling the two rooms. Again, on the main level is a large hole into the pipe tower designed to become a wide door which can easily be knocked out. The is covered with a burlap membrane thru which the sound comes. Nevertheless there would be numerous holes to recover and plug, and the cost to do so is difficult to estimate.

The problem is deciding whether the organ should as an excess feature, be treated as some contributory value (it does have some value as is in place in my opinion) OR will it sell seperately for more than the cost to cure the holes, etc. I do not think of it as personal property in its current form no more than I would a sound system or alarm system, in that so much of it is attached to the dwelling and there is a special room to house it. The owner did have the foresight to put the floor studs in on grade for future conversion and thus make the conversion easier. Sold, the organ likely would have to be dismantled by the buyer and that might mean hiring experts in organ building....again, there is some concern about the timing. Dismantling this thing could take days, even weeks. More time will be required to fix the associated trim details. with 90 day marketing times, selling, removing and repairing might well exceed that 90 day period. The valuation will depend upon the difference between its contributory value (relatively low) and the value of the organ as sold LESS cost to cure and time to effect that cure. And how far do you want to take the cure? I think I would simply floor the area, and make a storage area out of it as downstairs (on concrete slab) the adjacent property is storage and the upper room is off the den and lacks windows.
 

Terry Russell

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Montana
Terrel,

Here is a comp. It is located in Lansing, Mi.

Ric Tanner has some Kilgen parts for sale and may be able to help you with some info.
He is not associated with the comp. He is in Little Rock. I do not know him.

2/6 KILGEN HARMONIC ENSEMBLE ***NEEDS TO MOVE NOW*** This beautiful little instrument would make a fine chapel or deluxe practice organ, and is available for immediate removal. 8-2 Open Diapason 16-2 Stopped Flute / Bourdon 8-4 Dulciana 8-4 Salicional (spotted metal. original pair) 8 Voix Celeste (from TC. original pair w/ above) 8 Oboe (vintage Gottfried “keyhole”) Chimes (25 note electric action w/ variable volume) Tremulant ¾ h.p. Spencer blower DC rectifier Converted to direct electric with Peterson valves (except for Oboe which is electropneumatic). All chests re-wired on plugged Amphenol (telephone) cable for fast, easy installation. Console finished in original light fruitwood. Removed playing from church recently. Now partially assembled in shop. Ready for immediate removal. All pipes and components in very good condition. Photos and dimensions available upon request. Asking $5,750 USD OBO (517) 485-5421


Ric Tanner - [email protected]
Little Rock, Ar. USA
Telephone: 501 541 6955

Good Luck, Terry
 

Steve Owen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Missouri
Terrel, I'm glad it's you and not me. I would tend to lean toward cost to cure in spite of your later description. However, if you can sell the removed organ under the cost to cure scenario, then the difference between the sale price and the removal cost is your contributory value.

"As is" it sounds to me like a super-adequacy. Take functional depreciation, after adding in the cost to construct it in the cost approach. Take an adjustment (I have no idea how much, that's why I'm glad it's yours and not mine - lol) on the functional line in the sales approach. Surely the income approach is not applicable in this assignment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Top

AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks