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Unique Property.Any ideas? HELP

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WadeKoutnik

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
My recent inspection was to what was supposed to be a SFR FHA.

I show up and proceed to walk into the home where the borrower (I thought) showed me around (his section) I then realized this was a tenant and this home was a duplex ( I thought). So I walked to the other side and realized there was no access to the second floor. The owner instructed me that I had to go through the screened patio to get to the stairs.

So upstairs there are 2 bedrooms , a kitchenette and a bathroom. Also, the ceilings range from about 5 feet to 7 feet tall (Slanted as the roof is). The bath tub couldn't be taller than 5 feet.

The home also has heating a cooling from affixed window and wall units. no CHA. There is a tenant in the upper story and side unit and owner lives in main unit.

Public records considers this a single family with an apartment and an attic. Everything is in good shape.

Duplex with a finished attic?

Triplex?

Not eligible for FHA?

Run?

Other issues?
 

stefan olafson

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Dakota
It doesn't sound like a SFD, I'd revisit the client and make a rather substantial fee adjustment request. That should send them running.

I believe to be a legal apartment there has to be separate entrances for each, so there is an out.

With sloping 2nd floor I always measure from the 5' mark on the walls to calculate the Sq Ft. I've never been questioned when doing that.

Sounds like it may be more of a mess than you want to take on. Trouble with comparables and the extra time spent on the income and cost approaches may make this one you can walk away from.

Adjust your fee accordingly and see what the client says.
 

WadeKoutnik

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Fee was adjusted as soon as I left the inspection. They had no problem with it. Its a reverse BTW.

The biggest issue I have is what to do with the attic/ 3rd unit.
 

stefan olafson

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Dakota
Haven't ever done a reverse mortgage appraisal so I can't speak to that. Is there access from the exterior to the attic unit? If not then there really is no income value to that one. I guess you have a very unique duplex, go find other very unique duplex types and do some matched pair analysis....

What is H&B Use?

What is Legal Use?

Lots of questions....
 

Wendy

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Can the attic be legally rented?
 

WadeKoutnik

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Yes the attic has access through the outside/screened patio. HBU would multi fam with 3 kitchens, living rooms and 3 seperate entries.

How do I find out if renting the upper floor is legal?
 

Dennis J. Black ASA IFAS

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
How do you usually check the permited uses of a property?

Do you not READ the permitted uses in the Land Use regulations which control the property?

I am writing while biting my lip.
 

stefan olafson

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Dakota
Dennis,

I hope you don't bite it all the way through!

Some appraisers need to be led and some lead. Obviously someone has to lead Wade to the city/county planning and zoning office, pull the zoning ordinance applicable to this property or neighborhood and show him where it says, Single Family Residential, Duplex, or Multi Family. He'll have to be shown where the requirements are for legal uses of such property.

I was instructed on how to do this by my father way back in 1979 when I first began appraising. Lately, the newer appraisers have not had to think too much, just throw some numbers at a piece of paper and hope something sticks.

The changing market is going to educate some appraisers and make a lot of appraisers leave the business.

Have a GREAT DAY!
 

WadeKoutnik

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Dennis,

I hope you don't bite it all the way through!

Some appraisers need to be led and some lead. Obviously someone has to lead Wade to the city/county planning and zoning office, pull the zoning ordinance applicable to this property or neighborhood and show him where it says, Single Family Residential, Duplex, or Multi Family. He'll have to be shown where the requirements are for legal uses of such property.

I was instructed on how to do this by my father way back in 1979 when I first began appraising. Lately, the newer appraisers have not had to think too much, just throw some numbers at a piece of paper and hope something sticks.

The changing market is going to educate some appraisers and make a lot of appraisers leave the business.

Have a GREAT DAY!

Maybe you should read the initial post a little closer. Or should I lead you to that?

To answer the question. It is zoned single fam residential and they lady at the city office is having someone call me back about this. I find it weird that they consider one half to be an "apartment" yet single family. The upstairs is the bigger issue I believe. I am guessing Legal Non-Conform or Illegal.
 
Last edited:

stefan olafson

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
North Dakota
Wade, I think we all read it.

I show up and proceed to walk into the home where the borrower (I thought) showed me around (his section) I then realized this was a tenant and this home was a duplex ( I thought). So I walked to the other side and realized there was no access to the second floor. The owner instructed me that I had to go through the screened patio to get to the stairs.

Who is the client, who is the borrower, who is the owner? Prior to inspection did you do any research regarding zoning? Ownership? Building Permits? Where is the screened patio? Is it a part of the main floor? Are there ingress and egress to both main floor and 2nd floor from this screened patio?

So upstairs there are 2 bedrooms , a kitchenette and a bathroom. Also, the ceilings range from about 5 feet to 7 feet tall (Slanted as the roof is). The bath tub couldn't be taller than 5 feet.

Is this a Fannie Mae Refi? Does Fannie allow 7' ceilings? Why the comment on the bath tub? Is the current use a legal use according to zoning? Is the current use permitted?

The home also has heating a cooling from affixed window and wall units. no CHA.

Is the heating system typical for the area? Is the heat and cooling system adequate for the property?

There is a tenant in the upper story and side unit and owner lives in main unit.

Public records considers this a single family with an apartment and an attic. Everything is in good shape.

So if public records indicate a single family with apartment, then what does the planning and zoning office say when you tell them there are three units there? Sounds like the use current as of your inspection is an illegal use and therefore you have more research to do? I don't know where your information is coming from, go to the city hall and ask the questions in person...

Duplex with a finished attic? I don't know, is it permitted and legal. Please re-read my last post.

I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to steer you in the right direction.....
 
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