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Unpermitted bath

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Doug Wegener

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Senior Member
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Apr 14, 2005
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Certified Residential Appraiser
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Oregon
Unpermitted bath 3.5X8.

Not possible to get to the shower without climbing over the toilet. How would you value it?
 

Blueprint

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Aug 25, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
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Oregon
That bath looks like it would be a real pain in the butt to use. That is some major functional obsolescence. How big is the house? How many other baths are there? Would the the typical buyer use it? I probably would not give it any value and maybe even reduce value due to obsolescence.
 

Michael Tipton

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Sep 25, 2005
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Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
I would consider it a functional obsolescence issue, obsolescence deriving from a lack of adequate or appropriate equipment, space, or design.
 
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Gary Schinagel

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Jul 3, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
Besides the functional issue if it not permitted or at least built to code then it could be condemed and removed. Anything untypical say at least twice.No full value given possibly reduced to just GLA depends.Small adjustment anyway as a superadequacy. Is the intended use as a rental. Does the income approach apply now. Spell it out and weigh your rational. It looks like this one though may take a little more research.
 
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krnole2002

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Jul 7, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
was it a permited 1/2 bath that was converted to quasi- full bath without a permit....I don't think the building inspector would approve it now anyway. I'm not sure how others might tackle this one, but I was trained that no value was given to unpermited spaces. Now, we may be in different territory if it was previously permitted as a half bath. In that case I would count it as a half bath, note the unpermitted changes to the half, and then figure out out type of obselence they have created. "dear God. why do people do these things....Is this my punishment?" i repeat this phrase multiple times when I see a hot mess like this one. Makes you wonder if they save time in the morning...maybe they don't climb over the toilet...maybe they use it as a chair. LOL
 

Doug Wegener

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Senior Member
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Apr 14, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Oregon
Certainly it must be disclosed as unpermitted. Its in a city with poor records and lax enforcement. There is plenty of unpermitted stuff in the city that has value. In fact, due to the poor records many times the city dont know what is permitted and what is not.

There are 2 other baths in the house. There is a cabinet and a sink in this room as well as a fan/hood with a cabinet above. No doubt at some time somebody used this as a seperate one room rental. Its a small room approx. 15X20. Not a legal rental for sure.

The question is to whether give it any value at all. Maybe similar to bathrooms you sometimes see in garages. My feeling is to give it some minimal token value but its certainly not something you could prove in the market. But, after all, it has some utililty.
 

krnole2002

Freshman Member
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Jul 7, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
I think Gary said it best... no permit means that the area may not be to code. The looks of the bathroom is the biggest obstacle. The other room could probably be brought to code easily if it is not already; however, that bathroom is iffy. If something can't be brought up to code and given a permit...then it is often condemned. I would not use an unpermitted area as GLA. I'd email a request to the building department for the permitting on the home. Get it in writing, and report the results. You can't go wrong with that. You may also want to search the public records for a notice of commencment at the courthouse for any remodels or addtions. The shower portion may not have been permitted, but a 1/2 bath was permitted. You will still have to deal with obsloence issues. Given the current market I know it is hard to walk away from assignments, but don't give value to unpermited GLA.
 

Metamorphic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
I saw a bathroom like that once on an old cruise ship.
 

OSU Beavers

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Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Oregon
That's one efficient bathroom work triangle. Finally a design where I can shower, brush my teeth and use the toilet all at the same time!
 

redfish

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Michigan
You gotta ask yourself how the market is going to react to this ath (B left out on purpose). Put your buyer hat on, if you bought this home that bathroom would be removed and the remaining plumbing would either be capped and buried or turned into a wet bar. The fan/hood needs to be removed and the cabinet needs to be removed. This room, where is it in relation to the other rooms in the house? How does the floor plan function? Is it likely that the market would consider this a living room, family room or large bedroom. I would provide a cost to remove the bathroom and other elements from the room citing the functional obs and relay your belief that the room had most likely be used as a poorly planned mother in law suite or a rental room. Area is unpermitted a cost to cure is needed for removal of unpermitted appliances and plumbing with consideration given to the market resistance to perfoming the work.

I would expect to see interior walls on your sketch of the property to demonstrate the relation of this room to the rest floor plan.
 
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