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URAR (1004) Apn (assessor's Parcel Number) Geographic Id

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BarrySW1963

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Professional Status
Appraiser Trainee
State
Texas
Please share your best practices.

Several of the counties we cover report both the Assessor's Parcel Number (APN) and another number (the Geographic ID or "geoid", or "geo id") in the tax card (aka "datasheet") available on-line for each central appraisal district (CAD). Calls to the central appraisal districts have confirmed which is which. The APN is the parcel number and the "geo id" is used as an account number for taxation but is not the APN.

FNMA UAD compliance documents state:

"The appraiser should enter any available assessor’s parcel number(s) that would further identify the subject parcel/property. The parcel number(s) should be in the same format used by the taxing agency, including all spaces and dashes as applicable. If no parcel number is available, enter ‘None’."

Additionally, UAD indicates that multiple parcel numbers can be reported in the APN field with a semi colon, but that covers additional parcels, not additional numbers (used for different things) for the same parcel, when there is only one parcel for the subject.

In practice, we have found that despite including the entire tax cards, the plat map with APN clearly visible on it, adding commentary in BOLD that explains the two numbers and the differences between them, some clients insist that the APN field on pg. 1 of the URAR (1004) be switched to whatever number they are getting from third-party tax report providers (instead of the actual APN for the parcel). The numbers on the third-party tax reports are usually the geoid (i.e. not the APN, since the geoid is for taxation) that is not in the original format from the central appraisal district (i.e., not UAD compliant).

Are you getting the same type of requests?

Do you make the switch, and just disclose with additional commentary? (Even though copious commentary already in the report was ignored by the client, and ignored even when pointing it out?)

Have you found a reliable way to nip these requests in the bud?
 

CindyR

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
Here's what i said last time:

2. Would you just add the “4” to the APN# on the appraisal as APN # from the Title report is shown below:

Response - The "4" suffix shown in the Title report exhibit is not part of the subject Assessor Parcel Number. See Assessor Parcel report exhibit added to the report. The Assessor, who is the controller of the Assessor Parcel Number, does not include the numerical suffix. A search of the Maricopa County Assessor database for APN 999-99-999 4 would yield no results as the number would not be recognized as a valid parcel number.
The "4" suffix is included in the data records for the Maricopa County Treasurer. The Treasurer adds the suffix as part of their system to manage the tax accounts for each parcel. The current Treasurer account for the subject parcel includes the "4" suffix which is believed to indicate this is the 4th tax account associated with Assessor Parcel Number 999-99-999. The actual APN however does not include the suffix and it would be inaccurate to include the "4" as part of the APN.
 

Meandering

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Professional Status
Real Estate Agent or Broker
State
Pennsylvania
Here,
Slash numbers are tax account numbers. Parcel numbers are required by UAD. I can not change the UAD requirement by using tax account instead of Parcel numbers. Thanks for understanding the requirements of an appraisal report for lending. Please refer to the Fannie Mae UAD Field Guide for further assistance.

.
 

Restrain

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Florida
Having appraised in Texas for decades, you use the parcel number, not the geo number. Two suggestions. First build a permanent drop-down for your reports stating that there are to numbers, one the APN,one the Geo, the APNis what is shown, alternately, build the drop-down and wait for some officious reviewer to dispute the APN, then reply with the drop-down, I would go with the second because the reviewers at the companies NEVER read the comments in the addenda,
 

VolcanoLvr

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Washington
Use both numbers on Form Page 1. In our county we have both a Parcel number, and also a Treasurer's Account Number for each parcel.

We never know what the title report shows, so I just include both, separated with a (space) / (space).

[And for the questioners, NO.....typically the tile report is not sent with the assignment because we are a full disclosure state and all records are available on-line.]
 

Vermonter

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Vermont
We have a parcel ID and a span number. I've seen either one or sometimes both used to identify the property in a title report or P&S Agreement and both are on the tax bill. I always put the parcel ID in the field and add the span number to a comment in the addendum.
 

DiverMike

Sophomore Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Please share your best practices.

Several of the counties we cover report both the Assessor's Parcel Number (APN) and another number (the Geographic ID or "geoid", or "geo id") in the tax card (aka "datasheet") available on-line for each central appraisal district (CAD). Calls to the central appraisal districts have confirmed which is which. The APN is the parcel number and the "geo id" is used as an account number for taxation but is not the APN.

FNMA UAD compliance documents state:

"The appraiser should enter any available assessor’s parcel number(s) that would further identify the subject parcel/property. The parcel number(s) should be in the same format used by the taxing agency, including all spaces and dashes as applicable. If no parcel number is available, enter ‘None’."

Additionally, UAD indicates that multiple parcel numbers can be reported in the APN field with a semi colon, but that covers additional parcels, not additional numbers (used for different things) for the same parcel, when there is only one parcel for the subject.

In practice, we have found that despite including the entire tax cards, the plat map with APN clearly visible on it, adding commentary in BOLD that explains the two numbers and the differences between them, some clients insist that the APN field on pg. 1 of the URAR (1004) be switched to whatever number they are getting from third-party tax report providers (instead of the actual APN for the parcel). The numbers on the third-party tax reports are usually the geoid (i.e. not the APN, since the geoid is for taxation) that is not in the original format from the central appraisal district (i.e., not UAD compliant).

Are you getting the same type of requests?

Do you make the switch, and just disclose with additional commentary? (Even though copious commentary already in the report was ignored by the client, and ignored even when pointing it out?)

Have you found a reliable way to nip these requests in the bud?

Respectfully, I do not let CoreLogic dictate either form or format for my appraisal reports. Similarly, unless the client can show me the FNMA requirement to use a GEO-ID I have no problem telling them "no". If it is NOT a FNMA transaction then they have no business telling me what necessarily goes in a good appraisal to begin with.

As CoreLogic seeks to become the sole provider of data in America, they are making certain business decisions about what data to provide, with little regard for the consequences. For example; they are now (often) reporting BOTH MLS SF and Assessor SF in the same report where the two numbers are different. So now when MLS or my "public records" source are wrong in comparison with my taped totals I have TWO explanations to provide. In their attempts to cover ALL bases all they have done was to undermine their own data reliability.

The same holds true with GEOIDs. In my experience they are so assessors offices can use satellite imagery to estimate lot sizes and even improvement sizes based on covered (roof) footprints. There is no other practical reason for using a geoid. Rates are established based on tax rate areas that have existed for decades. Alternately census tracts are sometimes used.

Bottom line is that GEOIDs are NOT what FNMA requires I provide on reports intended for their use. Why would I let some correspondent lenders clerk tell me otherwise? Please learn to say "no" to incorrect, improper or erroneous requests from your own 'clients'.
 

DiverMike

Sophomore Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Having appraised in Texas for decades, you use the parcel number, not the geo number. Two suggestions. First build a permanent drop-down for your reports stating that there are to numbers, one the APN,one the Geo, the APNis what is shown, alternately, build the drop-down and wait for some officious reviewer to dispute the APN, then reply with the drop-down, I would go with the second because the reviewers at the companies NEVER read the comments in the addenda,

Before I accede to ANY request for a change of any type (unless I have actually made a clear cut error) I want to know the full name of the person making the request and what their specific position is with the company they purport to represent. It's not to be 'difficult' but I worked inside too many mortgage companies to buy the "Underwriter wants" this or that routine anymore. The anonymous person originating such system emails is not going to represent me before my state board if something goes south or a complaint is filed. Before I make ANY change of any kind that results in TWO versions of the same appraisal being in the CU queue or database, I want rock solid support that such a change or modification was necessary in the first place.
 
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