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David C. Johnson

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
<span style='color:darkblue'>Forum:

For about 40 (or more) of us, Thursday & Friday of this week was spent in Continuing Education (CE) class in Raleigh. The course topics lent themselves to numerous and continuous "community discussions" on pertinent appraisal issues which included changes in USPAP and NC appraisal board rules. It was another exceptional effort by Moultrie Watts, a longtime appraisal veteran, CE instructor, and NC State-Certified General R.E. Appraiser. Moultrie's humor, candor and insights always go a long way in keeping attention levels high -- even for several hours after lunch on Friday when a transformer blew such that the A/C didn't. There's no doubt it was an unusually good crowd, and particularly since I was not the only loud mouth in attendance. Last minute CE with Moultrie again proves to be a real good way to go.

AppraisersForum.com was cited time and again by several of us as being a great venue for keeping up to date on appraisal-related matters, and for getting and providing expert opinions regarding difficult appraisal situations. In fact, as mentioned in class, since USPAP recognizees and emphasizes the practices of one's peers as being a major "touchstone / benchmark" for performance, I agree with others that regular participation here is easily equivalent (actually far superior any way you look at it) to any and all yearly CE requirements in the states.

As most class attendees were not regular or even sometime-participants, I handed out the printed website address to everyone during a break. We may be seeing at least a modest rate increase in lurkers (i.e., guests) from NC over the next few weeks, and hopefully some new permanent "resident community citizens." Last year's CE in Steve William's class (who was featured in the Appraisal Institute's recent Valuation publication and who also holds a good class) netted several NC appraisers via a similar "recruitment" -- several of whom remain as lurkers today. Lurking is OK, and maybe even advisable, for many or most appraisers in this state's current oppressive and unenlightened appraisal atmosphere. Participation here is intended to enhance, not to endanger careers -- but more on this later, and maybe even a suggestion or two.

From a once rural outpost of a few pioneers (before my time), to settlement stage and full colonization, and now on to growing small town stature, AppraisersForum's character continues evolve. While much busier these days with an ever increasing numbers of threads and requisite sub-forums, I for one welcome the richness of diversity and appreciate the strength of numbers. We have a strong countrywide common interest. This is our profession. We will continue to guide it and protect it from harm. Our Founder and Mayor, Wayne McKerley, is much liked and appreciated. As time permits, I may make a few "Chamber of Commerce" and "Welcome Wagon-type" posts in this thread to map out a few general and specific places of interest for NC appraisers. Others may too.

Anyway, the last couple of days of meeting more peers in person was inspiring. We can look forward to several "cyber relocations" this year from the State of North Carolina.

Regards,

David C. Johnson
NC State-Certified General R.E. Appraiser
[email protected]

PS. Look for the "Return of the Fly" this week coming to a posting near you!</span>
 

David C. Johnson

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
NC Appraisers:

Numerous threads of interest can be found in all of the sub-forums. When you are ready for business, Click on the first four hyperlinks below for a pretty good introduction to some areas of specific concern to appraisers in NC and a few other states. The last four may also be of interest.

Tom Hildebrandt (commercial appraiser & CE Instructor), a former Naval Aviator and Air Rescue Pilot, now living in Greensboro, is currently fulfilling a life-long dream of sailing the ocean blue in his new sail boat with his wife (i.e., likely the real captain) for three months. He is due back in about a month, I believe. The newspaper article regarding the case is still active via the hyperlink found near the end of the thread.

If any one has any questions they are welcome to post (while you must register to do so), or email me confidentially. There may appear to be little activity with the new organization, FAIR. That's misleading. That sub-forum hyperlink is no longer used much. Once an appraiser becomes a member of FAIR, another sub-form appears below it (which is not currently visible on your monitor), but is limited to access by members. You are very much encouraged to consider joining. (On the hyperlinks below, keep using your browser's back button to return to this post and forum.)

Regards,

David C. Johnson
[email protected]


1) NCAB v. Tom Hildebrandt

[url=http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=996]2) Formal Complaint to the Appraisal Institute

[url=http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=506]3) With Enemies Like These, Who Needs Friends?

[url=http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1593]4) FAIR Is Formed

[url=http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1894]5) FBI's Largest Ever Mortgage Fraud Case (Charlotte, NC)

[url=http://www.frea.com/fannie.htm]6) Has Fannie Gone Too Far? By Donald J. Moore, MAI

[url=http://www.frea.com/fixing%20ap%20ind.htm]<span style='color:red'>7) Sam Blackburn's "Fixing the Appraisal Industry"</span>

[url=http://appraisersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2311]8) Sam Blackburn's Recent Post to AppraisersForum.com
 

David C. Johnson

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
<span style='color:darkblue'>NC Appraisers:

I mentioned at the above cited CE class that NCAB board members, as a group, have not been competent to be judging other appraisers in the state. The following is the documentation of one such example. But first --

Note 1.
This hyperlinked post is the start of a "thread" (i.e., a discussion) on the "Old Board." The Old Board, at this point, is basically an archived collection of previous threads from AppraisersForum from last year and back, and is "delineated" by the point in time that this current, more technologically advanced forum format began at the beginning of 2002. (While a bit more complicated, this current format has many more features, and also is able to organize and accommodate the population growth of AppraisersForum.) In addition to the actual hyperlinked post appearing directly below, there was a meaningful discussion via follow-up posts by forum participants in the thread. You might be interested in reading those posts at some point (if not right now, if you have the time).

Note 2.
The unlawful and unethical practice of some longtime NCAB board members' avoidance of Continuing Education (CE) for many years has since been verified (subsequent to the time of the following hyperlinked posting). However, NCAB records were certainly not immediately forthcoming when requested. I suspect that copies were ultimately produced (and mailed to us) once the Board was advised of the particulars of our state's version of the federal "Freedom of Information Act" -- a series of laws which may be very unpopular in the eyes of a few less than honorable self-serving politicians, agencies and bureaucrats and their owners around the nation. These laws may well be currently serving, and may continue to serve, to help preserve the country from otherwise near-certain "internal destruction." Maybe some other time on this issue though.

Hyperlink & Thread Title:</span>

North Carolina Appraisal Board in Action
<span style='color:darkblue'>
Excerpt from first paragraph:

"Members of AppraisersForum: Part of the purpose of this post
is to demonstrate one of many examples of ignorance of correct
and accepted appraisal practice on the part of board members
of the North Carolina Appraisal Board (NCAB). Some good
appraisers in this state pay very heavily for such board member
ignorance (while such ignorance does not appear to adversely
affect any board members themselves). At best, appraisers are
stripped of much time and money, and often careers are damaged..."
______________

Regards,

David C. Johnson, NC State-Certified General R.E. Appraiser

PS.
I plan to email Wayne before long to see if he may have any suggestions for, or can makes some provisions for, those appraisers from our state who would like to post anonymously on AppraisersForum. There has been such a need for some time. For instance, I personally know of at least four CE instructors in the state (and am sure there are many others) who will "lurk," but who will not post. CE instructors are more watched than the typical appraiser in the state. My former business partner, a well liked and extremely competent residential appraiser, may have been another one of them. I am sure his being well aware of what others and me have been through with the NCAB must have played an important part of his deciding not to renew his license to appraise last year. In fact, he was the CE instructor cited from the following hyperlink on Boardwatch. Understandably, he was never "100% in favor" of my participation in reforming our deviant board, and I sincerely apologize to him. I had planned to see him get his General Certification -- instead, as it turned out, I may have helped him exit the profession. The crimes of some of those currently or formally at the NCAB may go unpunished, but we intend to see that continued criminal activity by our state appraisal board will not continue much further into this century.

By the way, my participation in these efforts have cost me -- mainly via "opportunity costs" through lost time and effort which has been diverted from my appraisal business, but also cash expenses -- a bare minimum of $100,000 in the last few years. I will keep more realistic "cause & effect loss acounting" to myself partly to preserve credibility, but I will say I suspect I have been in less of a position to afford this than the typical small business.

You're welcome.

And I thank you for your support. We are beginning to seeing the fruits of our labors. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Some of what has been occurring is just not for publication at this point.

[url]www.boardwatch.org/htmfiles/wwwAAROnet.htm


PSS.
Appraisers and CE instructors Tom Hildebrandt and Bob Ipock have contributed greatly towards improvement at the NCAB for years. For the right reasons, both have been presuing positions on our Board. In both cases I believe it is a good idea, and I support them both, and thank them for their continued efforts.
-- dcj</span>
 

Stephen J. Vertin MAI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Illinois
David:

Does NC have ramdom audits of appraisers?

Steve Vertin
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Steve,

NC does have random audits. I know of several local appraisers who have been audited. Pretty simple process, the NCAAB has even pubisled an article on what they look for when they audit. Mostly stuff like your license displayed, propery buisness card and advertising formats, adequate filing system for 5 years woth of reports....stuff like that.

All the folks I know that were audited had no problems to speak of.


Bob
 

David C. Johnson

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
<span style='color:darkblue'>Steve,

Click on the last hyperlink of my last post in this thread for additional info about the audit. I will make a note to comment further in one or the other posts I am planning before long in the "Improving the Profession / Political Action" sub-forum.

I am trying not to get too "off topic" here for the General Forum. I wrote-up a fairly detailed post draft for you but then realized it clearly should be in the other forum. I am emailing you some additional information right now. My objective for this thread is to create a visible, convenient place for visitors to AppraisersForum from the State to find for getting updated on some particular issues of concern (as I told several I would). However, in short:

Since this board routinely (and inexplicably) summarily dismisses actionable offenses submitted via formal complaint (I heard of another one this week), and also has a "sometimes policy" of not initiating actions on their own (such as offenses by friends that surface in the course hearings), the original ulterior purpose for the audit no doubt included the establishment of a mechanism to enable selected appraisers to be "dropped in on" at will. The threat was likely viewed as strategic as actually conducting such an audit. My guess is that the scheme's planned utility was partly nixed via Boardwatch reporting to appraisers in the state, and also by alerting Tom Miller, an Associate Attorney General assigned to the NC Real Estate Commission who is the supervisor of our board's legal council, Roberta Ouellette. He was incredulous when I explained the system to him on the phone, and was not quite sure whether to believe it. He believes it now. I do not know if it has since been revised. There may even be a constitutional issue here as so many appraisers work from their homes. Bob appears to be saying that fishing through appraisal files for problems -- real or phantom -- is not typical. That's interesting to know, and may further complicate legal matters on "discovery" and prosecution of a USPAP infraction via the NCAB's unannounced audit (on appeal).

dcj</span>
 

USPAP Compliant

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
David,

The appraisers that personaly told their stories of theie audits, all pretty much said the same thing. (This was discussed in a CE class I taught last spring).

The audit including looking at a file or two from five years ago and a couple of recent ones. These appraisers mentioned that the investigator was checking for signatures, use of seal, limiting conditions etc.. All pretty standard stuff.

None of these people had a complaint against them (or at least did not day so) and were just audited for the items they were part of a satndard audit as expalained in the AppraiseReport. None of these appraisers were charged with any violations, but a couple were told that their adverstising,
letterhead or business cards did not meet the NCAB rules.

Those are the only audits I have any personal knowledge of. Others may have been handled differently.

I asked for a business card from each appraiser in the CE class and then we talked about what the requirements were. Less than 50% of the cards were compliant as far as meeting the requirements.



Bob
 

Jeff Horton

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Alabama
Just curious here but what does NC require on your buisness cards? As far as I know we don't have any requirements that apply to our cards.

As a Home Inspector I am required to have my Registration Number on advertising but not sure if that applies to our cards.
 

Stephen J. Vertin MAI

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Illinois
Bob or David:

Jeff has a good question. Furthermore, Bob mentioned use of seals. Are you required to use seals? David, that is the first thing I thought about when you mentioned audits. Are they constitutional? Very interesting, very interesting indeed.

Steve Vertin
 

Mountain Man

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
In NC, you are suppose to disclose if you are a trainee, licensed, certified,
or certified general. Their language is something like: "state licensed residential real estate appraiser". :roll: I guess I may not be in compliance, because all I have is NC Licensed with my license #.

Yes, NC is one of the last hold outs that requires your seal on all appraisals. Not a big deal though, my software "stamps" it when I sign and lock the file for PDF.
 
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